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 #3 vs. #4 in College Football In Texas - Attendance Records! 

Should Texas State University Move To Division II?
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 #3 vs. #4 in College Football In Texas - Attendance Records! 
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Post #3 vs. #4 in College Football In Texas - Attendance Records!
Imagine, two universities within the State of Texas, in the same conference and both ranked in the top 4 squaring off.........................

Well it's happening this weekend when Abilene Christian travels to Canyon, Texas to take on West Texas State. They're expecting to have over 25,000 at this REGULAR season game - a number 60% larger than the largest crowd ever at Bobcat Stadium.

And we're somehow bigger and better than DII football??? Pull this finger while you're at it.

Who here among us wouldn't LOVE it if we were ACU instead, playing West Texas State in front of 25,000 and we were both ranked in the top 4? This is incredible and sadly something we will NEVER experience at the I-AA level and most assuredly at the I-A level if we make such a stupid move.


Abilene Christian, West Texas A&M set for showdown

By TROY [email protected]

It is lightning in a bottle for the Lone Star Conference, a meeting of national-title contenders in the middle of October.

NCAA Division II football rarely rises above its modest perceptions. Saturday’s 6 p.m. kickoff in Canyon between No. 4 West Texas A&M (7-0, 5-0 LSC) and No. 3 Abilene Christian (6-0, 5-0) should push the envelope of what we expect from D-II in Texas.

First, the venue. Kimbrough Stadium, a stone’s throw from scenic Palo Duro Canyon, will be HDTV-worthy with the crowd West Texas A&M plans to cram inside. It’s too bad only a local Abilene station will air the game. Against Eastern New Mexico last season, West Texas set an LSC single-game record with 23,276 fans.

Averaging 14,000 in three games this season, West Texas expects to approach or surpass 25,000 Saturday, thanks to a grass knoll at one end of the stadium that seats several thousand.

Hotels? Good luck finding one anywhere in the Panhandle. They’ve been sold out for weeks. Go to Lubbock. Or Midland.

"Those people from Abilene need to bring tents and go to Palo Duro and camp out," West Texas coach Don Carthel said. "There’s no hotels."

The offenses alone are worth a ticket. ACU averages 530 yards per game and West Texas 539. ACU quarterback Billy Malone and West Texas’ Keith Null can throw the ball. Both teams scored 51 in routs last week.

The Wildcats, coached by former TCU tight end Chris Thomsen, won at then-No. 3 Northwest Missouri 44-27 to open the season.

"We’ve been tested," Thomsen said. "Northwest Missouri hadn’t lost a home game since 2005. It was a very full, hostile stadium, and we responded well. If we hadn’t been in that, I’d have questions, but we’ve been through it. I feel good about us being in this type of environment."

Carthel feels good about his team’s 12-game home winning streak (the last loss coming to ACU in 2006), but he’d feel better if his team’s running game showed up.

"It’s been nonexistent in a couple of ballgames," he said. "We’ve had lapses. We haven’t had four consistent quarters."

Few expect either offense to flop in this matchup, but it’s worth noting ACU’s defense has given up 12.7 points and 67.8 yards rushing per game this season.

"I’ll go out on a limb and predict a 3-2 game," Carthel joked. "No matter who wins, you’ll have two of the better teams in the country. You can’t predict who will stand out, the offenses or the defenses."


Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:19 am
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You make some very good poiints, and I had no idea D2 games drew such large crowds. I would also be worried if either of these teams showed up at Bobcat Stadium.

However, this university has an enrollment that is now greater than 28k. We have no business fielding a D2 team with a university of this size.

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Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:12 am
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Wow, Abeline Christian must have been sorely disappointed to BEAT US in front of a crowd of 10,000 at Wacker Field.

Normally I'd say DII is rediculous for a University this size, not to mention embarrassing, but all I have to do is read the postings on this site, and can see clearly DII is where this program belongs.

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Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:39 pm
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Post Re: #3 vs. #4 in College Football In Texas - Attendance Records!
I really think that crowds of 25,000+ are achievable at the I-AA level provided we have the same winning percentage as West Texas A&M and Abilene Christian.
For proof look up the game in 2005 against Northern Iowa. That game sold out in less than 24 hours, given a week with a large enough (ex: alamo dome) stadium 25-35,000 or more wouldn't have been out of the question.


Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:48 pm
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Post Re: #3 vs. #4 in College Football In Texas - Attendance Records!
millikan wrote:
I really think that crowds of 25,000+ are achievable at the I-AA level provided we have the same winning percentage as West Texas A&M and Abilene Christian.
For proof look up the game in 2005 against Northern Iowa. That game sold out in less than 24 hours, given a week with a large enough (ex: alamo dome) stadium 25-35,000 or more wouldn't have been out of the question.


I don't know what year it is from, but Appy State averaged 24k + for the season. AVERAGED. And that is with just a little over 13k in students.

Appalachian State Football Wiki

I think if we were to be a FCS powerhouse winning consistently, being a conference champ every other (or every third) year, and regularly being selected in the top 25, we would have average attendance of 20k as well (assuming that bobcat stadium was expanded).

But the argument of whether we should move down (or even up, in my opinion) is moot. It is all about the leadership and coaching that needs to be done to win consistently. I don't think that our leadership would bring us to the playoffs and conference championships if we were playing DII or even DIII ball. It all starts at the top. Once that is taken care of, the classification we decide to go is wide open.

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Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:11 pm
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Someone has mentioned in other threads on why we couldn't hire away the coaches from either one of these programs. Well if they get to coach in front of 25K crowds, why would they come here?


Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:27 pm
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Post Re: #3 vs. #4 in College Football In Texas - Attendance Records!
bobcathusband wrote:
Someone has mentioned in other threads on why we couldn't hire away the coaches from either one of these programs. Well if they get to coach in front of 25K crowds, why would they come here?


Why did Bailiff go to Rice. More money and a chance to coach at a higher level. I-AA is not that much higher than D-II, but it still gets more recognition than any of the lower divisions.


Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:14 am
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Post Re: #3 vs. #4 in College Football In Texas - Attendance Records!
FWIW, the official attendance was 19,380.

WTAMU averages 15,345 at home games. But the average attendance of road games is only 4,942.

Abilene Christian averages 8,406 at home and 8,253 on the road. And that road figure is with the WTAMU game factored in. Take that game away and it's 4,544.

The Bobcats average attendance has been 12,058 for home games and 13,292 for road games.

So yeah, it's nice that WTAMU pulls in a crowd but I can't imagine how if feels to play in front of >5K on the road.

Seems to me that WTAMU is an anomaly. I think being more successful in a lower division would have little to no effect on our attendance.


Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:10 pm
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What the hell is WTAMU?

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Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:06 pm
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Agent27 wrote:
FWIW, the official attendance was 19,380.

WTAMU averages 15,345 at home games. But the average attendance of road games is only 4,942.

Abilene Christian averages 8,406 at home and 8,253 on the road. And that road figure is with the WTAMU game factored in. Take that game away and it's 4,544.

The Bobcats average attendance has been 12,058 for home games and 13,292 for road games.

So yeah, it's nice that WTAMU pulls in a crowd but I can't imagine how if feels to play in front of >5K on the road.

Seems to me that WTAMU is an anomaly. I think being more successful in a lower division would have little to no effect on our attendance.


WT is an anomaly in the D2 and the LSC. In fact their attendance has either taken the top spot or ranked in the top 3 since their rebirth in 2005. Before that time, they were God awful, nobody came out, and they signed a 99 year lease to Canyon ISD make sure it remained in use.

Kimbrough was built when WT was a Division 1 school (Missouri Valley). They stayed D1 for awhile then I think their president killed the program rather than go IAA. When they came back the LSC and D2 became their home.

Since their resurgence, there has been talk of building a new modern stadium closer campus. They felt that Kimbrough was nice for Marquee games, but an intimate 12,000 person stadium could be louder place to play.

Current LSC Stadium Capacities-
Abilene Christian- 15000
ASU- 17,500 (owned by City)
Central OK- 10,000
East Central- 5000
Eastern NM- 5200
Midwestern St- 14500
Northeastern (OK)- 12000
Southeastern OK- 9000
SW OK- 4000
Tarleton- 5200
Kingsville- 15000

Most have issues filling their stadiums, even when they are good. ACU's homecoming was this weekend, they were #2 in the country and they didn't break 11,000 people. D2 is not the answer for the Bobcats.

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Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:58 pm
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