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 Question for the greeks on board 
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Driving around SM I've often wondered why the fraternity houses are so far off campus. I've seen the Sigma Chi house out on RR12 towards Wimberly, another on 123 towards Seguin. Just wondering why so far away.

Back in the 90's I visited my frats chapter at Texas State (long since closed) and it was right off campus. But I dont see any kind of greek row or district around campus. Am I missing it or something?


Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:59 pm
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:sombrero: :sombrero: :sombrero:
:texasstate: :texasstate: :texasstate:


Not a Greek, but my best guess is because of all the troubles the Greek community has gotten into the past few years is causing them to move further out to be away from too much attention.


Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:16 pm
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All of that happened around 1999, following the "troubles" in the TxSt greek system. Had lots of them getting booted off campus, put on probation, national charters getting pulled, etc. I seem to recall a few of them being in university-owned structures that they were ultimately kicked out of. So once their facilities got bumped off-campus, they had to look for other property. At the time, nearly all of the fraternities were under financial strain due to suspensions & probation. This limited their abilities to some degree as far as financing real estate purchases or affording rent on a large enough facility.

The second part of that is that in San Marcos, a fraternity/sorority house requires a zoning conditional use permit. A CUP carries with it a lot of conditions that must be met, including operational conditions. That creates uncertainty for real estate investment, since failing to meet conditions could potentially result in eviction. Any organization is going to have trouble getting financing under those circumstances, particularly if they have a track record of behavior in conflict with those likely conditions. Oh, and your neighbors get notified for a public hearing and can come protest--always a fun experience in San Marcos. Since there is not a "Greek Row," that means you'll be notifying nearby private property owners that will likely be less than excited about a frat house next door.

Finally, the cheap land is outside of town. Enforcement is more lax outside of town. Neighbors are further away and less likely to get pissed off. Or in the case of of the Delts, which appears to have the newest & nicest frat house, I think they had an alumnus donate their new house.

Sororities don't seem to have the same problem. Their finances & membership are more stable, they don't have the behavioral history that fraternities do, they do a good job of suckering fraternities into paying for stuff, etc. 3-4 of them are located within a mile of one another on Post Road, all in very nice facilities.

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Last edited by bleed gold on Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:29 am
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Thanks. My fraternity has targeted Texas State as part of our "Phoenix Campaign". Expansion by re-establishment closed chapters.


Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:15 pm
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MeanGruene wrote:
Thanks. My fraternity has targeted Texas State as part of our "Phoenix Campaign". Expansion by re-establishment closed chapters.


I should qualify that I was a GDI, so I don't have any deep internal knowledge. There are at least a few souls here that remember exactly what went down with the fraternities around that time, which one's were most affected, how the disposition of real estate went, etc.

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Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:19 pm
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MeanGruene wrote:
Thanks. My fraternity has targeted Texas State as part of our "Phoenix Campaign". Expansion by re-establishment closed chapters.


They need to re-establish...
I Phelta Thi...
Tappa Kegga... and
I Eta Pi

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Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:43 pm
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SS_Classof_88 wrote:
MeanGruene wrote:
Thanks. My fraternity has targeted Texas State as part of our "Phoenix Campaign". Expansion by re-establishment closed chapters.


They need to re-establish...
I Phelta Thi...
Tappa Kegga... and
I Eta Pi


+1. I was TKE at the U of Minnesota. From greekrank.com - "these guys are total douchebags..."

Looks like our standards from way back then are being upheld. The charter was an on again, off again kind of thing. There was also that thing about the fire. :-)

http://www.mndaily.com/news/campus/2014 ... -stay-time


Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:49 am
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bleed gold wrote:
All of that happened around 1999, following the "troubles" in the TxSt greek system. Had lots of them getting booted off campus, put on probation, national charters getting pulled, etc. I seem to recall a few of them being in university-owned structures that they were ultimately kicked out of. So once their facilities got bumped off-campus, they had to look for other property. At the time, nearly all of the fraternities were under financial strain due to suspensions & probation. This limited their abilities to some degree as far as financing real estate purchases or affording rent on a large enough facility.

some of this is on point, but it's not completely accurate.

remember that a house has to be big enough to function as a regular meeting place for 50-75 people and the occasional party. w/ 20+ fraternities in the early 90s, many of those were going to be off campus. sigma chi, fiji and sae were always off campus, because that's where they could find a place that fit them.

many are because campus expansion/real estate market took their houses. fraternity row on lindsey/academy used to house kappa sig, phi delt, sig tau, lambda chi and tke. most of those houses have been demolished w/ new construction in place. ka only retains their house because of a few well heeled alumni, and i think they actually own their house, unlike most who rent.

sigma nu's house burned down in the early 90s and the chapter was dormant for a while. when they returned, there was no place for them near campus. pike's hospital burned down in the early 2000s.

once all those places were gone, there isn't really any other place to go. very sad to see that community decline over the past 15 or so years.

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Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:07 am
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Texas State should follow the model that UNT employed. Back in the 90's the decision was to dedicate some land on the east side of campus for Greek Row. Fraternities built and own the houses but lease the land underneath from the University for 99 years at $1/yr. Later a Sorority Row was built. Currently, there are 8 IFC fraternity houses, 8 NPC sorority houses and a new Greek Life Center was just built


Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:44 pm
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where would you see this greek row in san marcos?

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Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:09 pm
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Saul Goodman wrote:
where would you see this greek row in san marcos?


Exactly. There isn't a location on campus suitable for such an arrangement--the spaces that are available are committed for future academic buildings. Even then, you're talking about 32 fraternities operating under the Greek Affairs banner at Texas State. That is 32 very large mansions and their associated land requirements. Texas State is a substantially landlocked university. Given the history in San Marcos, you will not see them buy out existing neighborhoods adjacent to the university unless it is for an academic purpose (even then, they avoid such acquisitions like the plague).

Speaking as a GDI, I actually think a healthy, vibrant Greek culture is good for a university. I think an organized Greek Row represents an ideal model/best practice. But such things must always be balanced against other goals & objectives in terms of importance. On the great list of goals & objectives of Texas State, ensuring a select few students have fancy houses to live & party at in close proximity to one another and the university ranks near or at the bottom in comparison to academic and even athletic goals.

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Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:10 am
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From a purely hypothetical perspective, the Section 8 housing directly adjacent to Bobcat Stadium would be an ideal place for Fraternity and Sorority Row. It would be reminiscent of the University of Alabama having Frat/Sorority Row in the shadow of Bryant-Denny. And I think it would really help us with student attendance at football/baseball games.

Also from a logistical standpoint, I think replacing Section 8 housing elsewhere in San Marcos would be much easier than buying out established, privately-owned neighborhoods near campus.

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Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:57 am
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That would also work well for the city, for a number of reasons.

Too bad it won't happen.

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Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:05 am
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Didnt mean to ruffle any feathers, My post is just a "wouldnt it be nice..." Not saying it's probable or even feasible but in an ideal world I think Tx State would benefit from a greek row. I dont think Tx State is any more land locked than UNT is. As the above poster mentioned, by the stadium would be a great spot.

And greek row isnt about giving a select miniority of students a fancy place to have parties. It's about housing. Sororities arent allowed to have parties at their houses. Most fraternities (mine for one) now employ substance-free housing policies. For liability issues these fraternities can only host parties off site with a 3rd party vendor Things may be different at Tx State with the off campus houses but this is the model thats being adopted at colleges accros the nation.

And not all chapters will build a house. Only 8 fraternities, and 8 sororities have houses at UNT. Thats out of 42 chapters


Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:35 pm
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MeanGruene wrote:
Didnt mean to ruffle any feathers, My post is just a "wouldnt it be nice..." Not saying it's probable or even feasible but in an ideal world I think Tx State would benefit from a greek row. I dont think Tx State is any more land locked than UNT is. As the above poster mentioned, by the stadium would be a great spot.

And greek row isnt about giving a select miniority of students a fancy place to have parties. It's about housing. Sororities arent allowed to have parties at their houses. Most fraternities (mine for one) now employ substance-free housing policies. For liability issues these fraternities can only host parties off site with a 3rd party vendor Things may be different at Tx State with the off campus houses but this is the model thats being adopted at colleges accros the nation.

And not all chapters will build a house. Only 8 fraternities, and 8 sororities have houses at UNT. Thats out of 42 chapters


I guess the 60's are really over. Sigh....... :-)


Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:08 pm
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