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 Fall 2016 Enrollment 
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Bobcat Wannabe

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Post Re: Fall 2016 Enrollment
GMAN wrote:
As a follow up, Both students were accepted to LSU, Arky, Ole Miss, LSU and OK State, one was accepted to TXST but accidentally received the wrong letter, that they were not accepted (neither applied to OU).

Both kids' first choice was TXST and both ended up going choosing Arky (the outcome of the Arky-TXST did not play into either decision.

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I would hope a football game would not be a deciding factor...


Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:36 pm
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Post Re: Fall 2016 Enrollment
not a single game, but athletics, school spirit, school pride and overall fun atmosphere all contribute. once you're out of the top tier schools, why not pick the one where you're going to have a great time while you're there, and a place to come back to for years to come?

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Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:37 am
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SuperCat

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Post Re: Fall 2016 Enrollment
numbers are trickling in

UH expecting over 44,000 but probably waiting until they see if there are storm stragglers
UTA 41,715
:texasstate: 38,694
north Texas state 38,121
Texas Tech 37,010
UTSA N/A
UTD 27,627
UTEP 25,078

the story that had the UTA numbers talked about the construction and growth on their campus specifically a new engineering building and 500 bed dorm, but it also talked to the president of the university and a long time professor about the growth of the school

the president stated there was room for more growth, but that in the future they were going to take measures to limit that growth

the way it sounded that "future" is much more in the near future than the medium term future and while it seemed growth will not stop completely it sounded like it would be at a much slower pace

it also mentioned that UT Austin in Fall 2018 would be 6% automatic admissions while of course everyone else is 10%

Gov. Abbott has talked about making some changes to the 10% rule for schools besides UT Austin......this is a VERY GOOD idea for most of the universities listed above

currently A&M could get permission (or may actually already have it) to use the same method that UT Austin uses for adjusting their auto admissions, but because john sharp is an idiot they have decided against that for now

the link below also provided the north Texas state numbers (as does their WWW) and the UTD numbers as well

the Texas Tech numbers were from their WWW as were the UTEP and :texasstate: numbers

so right now only UTSA and UH not giving confirmed numbers will update as I see them

here is the link

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/UT-Arl ... 49533.html


Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:43 am
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Someone wrote:
Gov. Abbott has talked about making some changes to the 10% rule for schools besides UT Austin......this is a VERY GOOD idea for most of the universities listed above

can you discuss this a bit more? what is the policy now vs what some of the changes proposed are?

my understanding is that top 10% gets a student into every public school except ut, which was top 8% and moving to top 6%. can't imagine that tamu is looking to drop from 10% at the same time they are looking to keep growing.

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Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:43 am
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Post Re: Fall 2016 Enrollment
Is this the first time our numbers have gone down since Trauth took over? Is this planned and did they up admission standards?


Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:54 am
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Post Re: Fall 2016 Enrollment
http://www.txstate.edu/news/news_releas ... 91917.html

above is the Texas State article

some key points

1. largest freshman class to date

2. engineering and health enrollments are up and that should increase with buildings being built for both and engineering getting new degree plan(s)

3. top 25% students are 51% and the really relevant part to me is the related comment about that being a "research university" (NRUF) metric as mentioned in the NRUF thread

so Texas State even now with $27 million in restricted research out of a needed $45 million as a first qualifier for NRUF funding is actively looking at the other 6 metrics and looking to meet to meet them

4. things not mentioned and that I am making an ASSumption on.....there was no mention of graduate enrollment and while Texas State is adding a PhD in CS they are most likely not enrolling for that yet and that will probably at best be 20 or so students for a while so not a significant factor in enrollment

another ASSumption IF graduate enrollment is down it is probably at the masters level

generally when the economy improves students tend to go into the workforce and do not go to graduate school at as high of a rate

also there is a chance that Texas State had a large graduating class recently at the undergrad level as well and that contributed to a decline in enrollment

one would need to look at graduation numbers recently AND 1st and 2nd year student retention rates as well to see if it was graduating students at a higher rate or if they were losing students in the 1st and 2nd year (or anytime pre-graduation)

one other small factor could be the events in Houston and South Texas recently.....I would imagine there are a number of students that just went through that and ended up and were either unable to or not wanting to add on to what was going on with them and their family by also rushing up the road and moving into college

IF that is the case lets hope it is because students wish to help their family clean up and rebuild and it is much less related to the financial impact making college unaffordable though the realist in me says there will be some that now find college (at least away from home) unaffordable or undesirable even if affordable

even if your family was fully insured and doing ok financially you can go from having a ton of cloths, a room of stuff to move to college and a car to your family having 3 flooded cars and a room full of moldy crap

that is a lot to rush out and replace AND to get moved into school in about a 2 day period

again hopefully all potential candidates are recovering and they are enrolling in CC and getting cheap credits out of the way and maintaining grades and looking forward to a spring or next fall enrollment if Texas State is where they want to be

I would imagine all area universities are looking at this issue closely and moving plans forward to retain or recapture those students

5. on a more positive note for Texas State while this is the largest freshman class the fact that they have bumped the students in the top 25% of HS class back up over 50% and specifically mention doing that tells me they have POSSIBLY started to take fewer "individual review" students and specifically ones that were not in the top 25% of their HS class or ones that were "data analyzed" to be in a group that was not performing once admitted

one would need to see more numbers to see if this is the case, but still with the largest freshman class there would need to be other factors at play like a large graduating class, loss of grad students or lower retention

there COULD be an issue with retention of some students from the Houston and South Texas area as well.....you did not have a great first year, you were on the edge financially ect and now half your crap is under 3' of water what is the easiest "stress" to cut from your life......going back to college where you fresh or soph year was not as great as you wanted it to be

again lets hope the administration is already well on their way to getting those students back if that is their overall desire (or helping them transition to another school if that is their desire)

I would say there is ALWAYS (or pretty much almost always) the ability for Texas State and similar universities to admit 500 more students or whatever if their desire is just "enrollment" and "growth" for the sake of more students

that IMO is a TERRIBLE goal and I think the administration of Texas State would say the same (I would hope they would)

the best news is that the programs that usually attract top students and that have in demand graduates like engineering and health sciences are the programs poised to grow the most at Texas State and Texas State is building facilities and adding faculty and degree plans to make that happen

those can also bring in grant funding and research dollars as well

6. with Gov. Abbott and the 10% rule most of the articles are talking about UT Austin

A. the rule is if you are in the top 10% of your HS class you get into any Texas public university automatically.....with ONE exception UT Austin

UT Austin has an exception where 75% of their freshman class gets an auto admit under the HS class ranking

so each year UT looks at their freshman class and they determine what high school class rank metric would equate to 75% auto admits and then that is published for (I believe students TWO years out) to meet though it could be only 1 year out (I believe it is 2)

so UT looks at their freshman class for 2017 and determines that students in the top X5 of their HS class is what would have made up 75% of their freshman class and then they publish that on their admissions site and (I believe two years) later that is the new metric

so just as an example using made up numbers if in 2012 the freshman class at UT Austin was 90% students admitted because they were in the top 10% of their HS class UT would look at those numbers and run them and determine that if that high school class ranking had been restricted to top 8% of the HS class then their auto admits under that rule would have been down to 75% of that freshman class well (I believe two years out) students looking to be admitted would need to be in the top 8% of their HS class to get an auto admit

and they adjust it every year

so if in 2014 the freshman class is 78% students admitted because they were in the top 8% of their HS class well UT would again adjust to try and get those auto admits down to only 75% using whatever class rank % meets that goal

again they adjust based on every year rolling so say starting in 2012 they adjusted and that was for 2014 (again I believe 2 years out) and then in 2013 they adjusted and that was for 2015 and in 2014 they adjust and that is for 2016 and in 2015 they adjust and that is for 2017 and on and on

the two years out (I believe it is two years) is so that students are not caught flat footed in the top say 9% and suddenly it has changed to 8% and they are out with no way to try and improve their grades......they have a year to try and really get after it and try and move up that 1% (or whatever) needed to get back into the auto admit group

as for A&M at the time the legislation for UT was passed A&M had the chance to get the same rule and they declined so they will take all 10%ers that apply and at least one idiot names john sharp is glad to do so

the REALITY is john sharp is a moron, his goals are not in line with a top university and he is destroying A&M at a rapid pace and possibly for decades to come.....he is a total and complete idiot

his real goal is to just crank out more "good ags" and to have everyone on earth possible run around with an A&M ring because he is too stupid to understand that really is going to just create a bunch of people that were never fully vested in A&M and it will tear apart what "A&M" has meant to a long line of former students......you can argue about what that "A&M" means all you wish, but the reality is A&M is getting licked in the balls in rankings. sharp has already testified to the Texas Senate that he was shocked to find that his enrollment increases actually hurt formula state funding levels for A&M (because he was too stupid to understand how those formulas work Vs the types of students being admitted and their degree choices) and College Station is packed to the gills and getting worse and the on campus student facilities are over strained as well

and it is going to continue to hurt in rankings (even if you think irrelevant as he clearly does). attractiveness to top students (highly relevant since he has stated his goal with growing is to attract and keep more top Texas students), grad rates, 1st and 2nd year retention, student quality of life and of course students that actually value their choice in university

to the specific "keep and retain top Texas students from going out of state"........A&M right now ADMITS something like 13,000+ students that CHOOSE to go elsewhere

again they are ADMITTED....THEY CAN ENROLL....they are ADMITTED and they CHOOSE to go elsewhere and many are top students.....so there is NOTHING that can be done to admissions standards to help admit these students because THEY HAVE BEEN ADMITTED....THEY CHOSE NOT TO ENROLL

here are the numbers A&M had 34,780 applicants in fall of 2016 and they ADMITTED 67% so they had 23,302 students that were ADMITTED and could have enrolled and 43% of those chose to enroll or 10,020 so that means that 13,282 students that were ADMITTED made a choice to go elsewhere

so anyone with a brain would ask.....why did they choose to go elsewhere.....and only a total MORON would think that the made a choice to go to anther school because A&M did not have a large enough enrollment for them and they wanted to go to a bigger school.....because there are only about 5 universities in the USA that are bigger USF, UCF, AU and ASU and maybe one other

so a reasoned person would think "well why are all these students that are already meeting our admissions choosing to go elsewhere" and what can we do to attract THEM

a moron thinks "lets find a way to grow enrollment even larger when we are already watching 13,200+ ADMITTED students CHOOSE to go elsewhere

because think about it......you are already watching 13,200+ students go somewhere else that were qualified how in the hell are you going to get MORE students that want to enroll

well you have to be stupid enough to believe that there are students out there from the 23,000+ that applied and were admitted and the 34,000+ that applied that somehow forgot to apply to A&M or that need to be encouraged to apply to A&M with their metrics that would gain them admission and they would choose to enroll

and does anyone with a brain think that growing to 60,000+ students encourages that......well one does john sharp, but his brain apparently does not function well because that is an idiotic idea

the REALITY is a top university attracts top students and top students create a top university and that compounds on itself which is why when you get to the size of Texas State, UTA, Texas Tech ect you start trying to use your size for economies of scale and to build around areas of excellence and to start new programs that attract top students

then you in turn slowly increase admissions standards, rankings, research and student metrics and you become more attractive to top students because they see your university as a place they WANT to attend

there is a tipping point where you either improve or you become a degree factory and that is extremely hard to recover from because you have a generation of alumni or more that view their time at your school as "got a piece of paper whatever" and that reflects poorly on you, they do not send their kids and you do not attract top students you run them off

or you improve, you gain some economies of scale and you grow through the addition of in demand and difficult degree programs, your former students say things like "damn I could maybe not have gotten in, but my degree works for me more than ever now" and you become more attractive

A&M is doing the exact opposite.....UTD is doing i better than right.....A&M is tearing it down as fast as possible.....UH is doing some things right and the are using word games and billboards as well along with fake "rankings" and made up "tier 1"......but hey it is working for them because their student metrics (incoming and outgoing) are going up even if their rankings are holding steady

Texas State has room to improve on the incoming, but the reality is Texas state does very well on the outgoing (graduation rates).....the really good news is generally incoming improvements lead to outgoing improvements as well as does more on campus living ect

so enough about A&M and back to the 10% rule

I believe Abbott wants to give some of the "emerging research" universities (Tech, Texas State, UH, UTSA, UTEP, UTD, UTA and north Texas state) some wiggle room on the 10% rule as well

my proposal would be to allow those 8 universities to set a baseline SAT score for those top 10% students to meet even if they are in the top 10% of HS class

I believe the idea that standardized test scores are "biased" or "not a good indicator" is the thinking of idiots and losers.....sure there can be a FEW that "do not test well", but how well do those types preform under any pressure if that is the case

along with that how damn poorly do you need to be able to "test" before enough is enough.....not to mention I am about 100% positive that there are a large number of students that are well into the top 10%, they have made a choice of university based on "close to home", "friends going there", "parties", "chicks", "whatever" and on and on for the WRONG reasons to choose a school based nothing around academics and they cruise in and take the SAT or ACT and get a 12 and all is well because top 10%!!!!!!

and it just destroys the SAT/ACT scores for the school

what % of incoming students have done that who knows, but even if it is 5% or 2% that is still a ton of piss poor scores for others to make up for

so I believe that there should be something like UT has only it is with SAT and ACT......schools look at their freshman class SAT and ACT scores and look at the scores of the top 15% or maybe the top 15% and they get an average and then they are allowed to set a baseline score to meet off of that average from the prior class

so if the 2012 class top 10% admits had a average SAT of 1,200 well the university could set a baseline for future top 10% admits of that average less 10% so 1,200 -120 or a needed SAT of 1,080 to still be admitted in the top 10% metric

or maybe it would be baseline minus 5% or 1,200 - 60 = 1,140 needed to get in under the top 10%

really they need to look and see performance.....what top 10% students are coming in and just dragging the SAT/ACT into the mud and what have they done once admitted and base it around that so that those students cannot drag an average SAT way down for a university AND so they do not come in and fail out and trash other metrics like retention and graduation

the other way that a university can work this is what UH already does and that is to require admissions metrics for specific degree programs, schools and colleges

so you can get into the university as a top 10% student, but you still need X on the SAT to be in the college of engineering and the college of business or the college of hotel restaurant (and others)

you need no state approval for that

the one issue for that with a university like Texas State in a beautiful location, a "residential university", near Austin and loaded with hot girls is you are still going to get students that "enroll" and "hope to make he grades" to transfer into a degree program while also hitting the river, chasing ass and going to Austin every weekend (not as common now with I-35 traffic)

so they end up and waste space and time of they do not make the grades and eventually hurt metrics down the road....lets face it young 18yos do not make the best future decisions even if it means take an ACT/SAT prep curse dumbass and make the needed SAT/ACT to get into engineering ro business and then at least you start where you wanted to be instead of starting with "well I will try and make it I'm into the university and away from home at least now pass the bong and lets make out"

so really IMO for some universities they need to actually weed out some freshman in overly popular, but less "demanding" degree programs specially to raise the profile of those degree programs for those that really want to study that field AND to prevent those degree programs from becoming the defacto "getting a degree" which of course does nothing to raise the profile of that program or help those that WANTED that major

so you really have to run the numbers and the emerging research universities in Texas need to start doing that especially now while Abbott is in office and open to changing the top 10$ rules possibly for more than UT and A&M and while enrollments are good and incoming students are steady and available and raise the profiles of those universities to make them more attractive to TOP students.....this Vs doing like A&M and just throwing open the doors and pretending top students are looking for that while watching them CHOOSE elsewhere

sorry to ramble longer than expected


Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:27 pm
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Post Re: Fall 2016 Enrollment
that was pretty epic. :shock: :shock:

glad to see others w/ the same take on sharp and what he's doing to tamu. as much as i rag aggies, it's in fun and it's a damn good school, cursed by the hive mentality in the name of tradition. it's a damn shame what he's doing, and why he's doing it.

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Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:26 pm
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Post Re: Fall 2016 Enrollment
Great read. I got into A&M and choose to go to TXST, mostly because the campus was so much nicer.


Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:14 am
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SuperCat

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Post Re: Fall 2016 Enrollment
slycat wrote:
Great read. I got into A&M and choose to go to TXST, mostly because the campus was so much nicer.


A&M has a ton of buildings that look like they were stolen from the soviet union in the mid 70s

they also have some that look like they were designed by the lowest cost US military contractor in the 60s

many will be done away with over the next 10 years or so I would imagine especially some of the dorms and general classroom buildings

truth be told it is difficult to compete with the Texas State campus overall


Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:50 am
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