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 It's Actually Worse Than It Looks 
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Post Re: It's Actually Worse Than It Looks
Bobcat.taxman wrote:

If we struggle or don't win by 21+, warm up the printer for the buy out of the contract. Against an FCS team, there is no reason why they should be able to stay with an FBS program with a third year coach.



As bad as our program is, Texas Southern is a whole new level of bad. We are one of the worst FBS teams in the country and could beat at least half of the FCS teams. Texas Southern is one of the worst FCS teams in the country and could only beat about a dozen FCS teams.

We should win this by 20+ points without much of a sweat.


Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:45 pm
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Post Re: It's Actually Worse Than It Looks
This game won't prove anything on the positive side. A blow out is pretty much expected even if we aren't great. It could prove something on the negative side if it is close at all. My hope is to walk away from the game still not knowing if we are good/bad.


Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:19 pm
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Post Re: It's Actually Worse Than It Looks
Run Faster, as much as you wish it to be so, FCS football just isn’t relevant — regardless of whether TXST is a successful FBS program or not. I just really hope for your sake that you’re not a JMU fan (or hater from another school) masquerading as a bobcat fan. If so, just admit it. If you’re an actual TXST supporter, then start acting like it. Every single post of yours is so transparently anti-TXST. It’s getting pretty old.


Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:25 pm
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Post Re: It's Actually Worse Than It Looks
TXST_01 wrote:
Run Faster, as much as you wish it to be so, FCS football just isn’t relevant — regardless of whether TXST is a successful FBS program or not. I just really hope for your sake that you’re not a JMU fan (or hater from another school) masquerading as a bobcat fan. If so, just admit it. If you’re an actual TXST supporter, then start acting like it. Every single post of yours is so transparently anti-TXST. It’s getting pretty old.


I don't know if he's a JMU fan or not, if he's anti TXST or not, and honestly don't care. To your: "If you're an actual TXST supporter, then start acting like it." What does that even mean?

Over the past 3 decades, we've been one of the worst football programs in the country. We've had like 7 winning seasons since 1986 or so. That's reality. Is it any wonder that most Bobcat fans are also fans of (insert your favorite P5 Program here). Are we all supposed to put on maroon and gold glasses and pretend that the last 30 years never happened? If you'll remember, EW was the one that rode into town and in his first presser said what "fan" was short for, said we shouldn't be patient, cause he wasn't going to be either. Yet here we are in year 3 looking just as bad as year one.

You talk about his "anti TXST posts getting pretty old." I'll tell you what else is old: Following a perennial loser, year in and year out, and pretending that it's really Not. If we had an App St or Ga Southern type program, and dude came on here and trashed it pretty regularly, I could understand your frustration with his posts.

I love my school and wish that we did actually field a football program we could all be proud of. But we don't, and if some folks have gotten sick of that, if they've become impatient for a winner, I can't really say that I blame 'em.

As the great philosopher Popeye once said: "We is what we is." And what we is, is not very good.

I sincerely hope that changes soon, with or without EW. JM 2 cents

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Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:37 pm
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Post Re: It's Actually Worse Than It Looks
Bobcat 87...You are spot on! I love Texas State as well (we all do) but the football program has passed the the point of being a joke. For our university to consistently be at the bottom of the barrel in the FBS is just not acceptable. Additionally, Withers is three years into "trust the path". I'm having a little trouble thinking of jobs that pay North of $700K where results aren't part of the equation.


Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:56 pm
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Post Re: It's Actually Worse Than It Looks
I haven't visited this place since EW was first hired by TXST. I figured I'd take a peek as EW came up on the JMU boards today. Anyways I figured I'd weigh in on some of the EW points. Be warned, it is heavy on JMU facts who is an "irrelevant FCS" team, but it will stoke the fire you all have burning against Run Faster. Bold points for those of you who fear the length of the post.

First things first, JMU is not missing EW. That is a fact. However, a sensible JMU fan will appreciate EW's time at JMU. We had missed the playoffs 4 out of the 5 previous seasons and were coming off a 6-6 season (2002 was the last season JMU had less than 6 wins). We needed someone new. EW brought a lot of excitement back to the program through not only wins but also his FBS mentality. He helped drive increased donations, new uniforms, new locker room, much more "juice" as he would say.

I'm not going to say we "lucked" into Vad. Vad came to JMU because of EW. I mean Vad was down at TXST for a few days earlier this summer hanging around the team. With that said we already had a QB who transfered up to Marshall after Vad was brought in. Birdsong was a record holder at JMU in his only year starting. He attended camp with the Seahawks and Saints. He had talent, especially for the FCS level.

We had a high scoring offense under EW, "successful" is up to debate. Some of the high scores were due to style and tempo of EW's offense. Some was due to our defense giving up 30+ points a game (also due to EW's style). And obviously some was was due to having Lee. Run Faster isn't right, or wrong, to point out Lee's stats as he was a beast, but they were helped by the style and tempo.

Run Faster is incorrect to bring up how we performed under our backup QB following Lee's injury. He pointed out that we went 2-3 after Lee got hurt but correlation does not equal causation. We lost the game Le got hurt (#11 ranked team), we lost the next by 3 (#16 ranked team), we beat a 4-7 Delaware which always plays JMU tough, we beat a team, and then we lost in playoffs. So Run Fasters headline is we went 2-3, but the story is we went 0-3 against playoff teams. Which leads me to my next point....

EW was 1-5 against playoff teams. EW couldn't beat a good team to save his life. We lost back to back home playoff games during his tenure. One was to Colgate who I don't think gave the full FCS allotment of scholarships. Basically, EW wins the games he should win and losses the toss up games (with the exception of us beating a 2-10 SMU). Thankfully for us, every JMU "should" win 7+ games a year. Unfortunately for you all, well, that isn't the case. So Run Faster is correct when he says we weren't winning "due to any great schemes or coaching."

To clarify about our "luck" in recruiting Lee. We currently have a starting ACC QB calling the shots this year. A decade ago we had a Louisville starting QB transfer and led us to our first title. We have had a 4 start Vanderbilt QB transfer but never play. Our QB in '16 and '17 originally committed to Miami of Ohio. We had a Steve Spurrier recruited QB who started at South Carolina before an injury who transfered to JMU. So no I don't think getting Lee was "luck" in the sense that we get plenty of FBS QB transfers.

Houston has not relied on EW recruits for his success. No doubt with Lee and Houston, JMU would have won at LEAST one playoff game in '14 or '15. So there are no more "butt-hurt" fans at JMU. We are VERY happy without EW. Did I mention how we went from 1-5 against playoff teams and first round playoff exits to 7-1 and two title game appearances with a new coach?

We are also not "butt-hurt" about being down 17-13 against NC State midway through the 4th. Finley is McShay's #1QB in the '19 draft, they have a first round WR, and we found out Saturday morning we lost our All-America CB to injury for the entire season (our 3rd defensive starter that would not play). To be smug due to the "butt-hurt" comment; we lost by 11 to the #31 Sagarin team; you all lost by 28 to the #94 team.

JMU appreciate EW's time but don't miss him because, frankly, he is not a good coach. JMU bailed him out before he had a chance to get fired by OSU and he jumped at the first FBS school that actually offered him a job. It isn't even debatable, we have had much more success under Houston than we would have had under EW the last two years. Knowing the salesman EW is (which no doubt, leads to successful recruiting), I'm not shocked to see his supporters on here. I am shocked so many appear to unwavering support a coach who is 2-21 against FBS schools. I mean two years before he got there you all were 14 points from being 10-2 or 7 points from being 9-3.


Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:45 pm
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Post Re: It's Actually Worse Than It Looks
TXST_01 wrote:
Run Faster, as much as you wish it to be so, FCS football just isn’t relevant — regardless of whether TXST is a successful FBS program or not. I just really hope for your sake that you’re not a JMU fan (or hater from another school) masquerading as a bobcat fan. If so, just admit it. If you’re an actual TXST supporter, then start acting like it. Every single post of yours is so transparently anti-TXST. It’s getting pretty old.


There are at least ten top FCS schools and at least six HBCUs where football is far more relevant nationally than the product that San Marcos has fielded over the last few years. Hell, look at how many FCS schools have wins against FBS teams over the last 2.5 years and compare that to how many wins Texas State has over FBS teams. All of those schools have more relevance since they actually impact what you consider as relevant - FBS.

Why would you think I am not a Texas State supporter? Have you seen what this program has turned into since December 2015? I won't apologize for refusing to pump rainbows up my ass when I post on here. We are atrocious and many of us on here are partly responsible for that.

How many donate to the athletic department/football program other than tickets? If you don't, start . . . or at least contact Teiss and Trauth pledging a certain amount if they change the course of the program.

The truth is that we made an awful hire who has continued to make awful hires. The guy just doesn't get how important off-the-field things are in running a program at the FBS level. I have gone over some of them (wanting to host entire official weekends in Austin, fvcking over recruits which led to bad blood with high school/JUCO coaches, choosing to live in Austin instead of at least Hays County, not being good with boosters, branding a program and making it attractive), but there are plenty more.

It is absurdly stupid that you think a JMU fan - a school which would kick our ass and has had far more success after Withers left - would spend time on here due to being mad at Withers. It fails basic logic. And, again, we are god-awful. Why would a fan of another team spend time on here kicking a dog that is as far down as we are? Nobody wastes their time on us unless they are playing us the coming week. Why? Because we are the irrelevant team that you think everyone else it.


Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:00 pm
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Post Re: It's Actually Worse Than It Looks
JMU_FAN wrote:

I'm not going to say we "lucked" into Vad. Vad came to JMU because of EW. I mean Vad was down at TXST for a few days earlier this summer hanging around the team. With that said we already had a QB who transfered up to Marshall after Vad was brought in. Birdsong was a record holder at JMU in his only year starting. He attended camp with the Seahawks and Saints. He had talent, especially for the FCS level.

To clarify about our "luck" in recruiting Lee. We currently have a starting ACC QB calling the shots this year. A decade ago we had a Louisville starting QB transfer and led us to our first title. We have had a 4 start Vanderbilt QB transfer but never play. Our QB in '16 and '17 originally committed to Miami of Ohio. We had a Steve Spurrier recruited QB who started at South Carolina before an injury who transfered to JMU. So no I don't think getting Lee was "luck" in the sense that we get plenty of FBS QB transfers.
.


Your first paragraph claims that JMU was able to get Vad because of his relationship with Withers. Then, your second paragraph lists how frequent it is that JMU has an FBS transfer QB leading the way. In saying the latter, you're admitting that JMU gets FBS QBs, and it has very little to do with who the head coach is at the time . . . except in the case of Vad? Yeah, that doesn't make much sense.

JMU_FAN wrote:
Run Faster is incorrect to bring up how we performed under our backup QB following Lee's injury. He pointed out that we went 2-3 after Lee got hurt but correlation does not equal causation. We lost the game Le got hurt (#11 ranked team), we lost the next by 3 (#16 ranked team), we beat a 4-7 Delaware which always plays JMU tough, we beat a team, and then we lost in playoffs. So Run Fasters headline is we went 2-3, but the story is we went 0-3 against playoff teams. Which leads me to my next point....


In other words, he was 1-2 against playoff teams with Vad and 0-3 against playoff teams without Vad including needing a TD with 17 seconds left to beat a 4-7 team without Vad. My point remains the same: Withers' success at JMU (and I use that word loosely as 9-4 and 9-3 isn't a ton of success for one of the three best FCS programs/facilities) was overwhelmingly the result of having Vad. Your own attempt at refuting that supports my argument.

As for your defense of the last minute win against Delaware being that "Delaware . . . always plays JMU tough" . . . last year, JMU had a double-digit lead over them the entire second half. The year before that, JMU beat them by 20+ points. I guess Delaware "always plays JMU tough" when Withers is the head coach, which further supports my argument.


Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:18 pm
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Post Re: It's Actually Worse Than It Looks
Holy shit. You just won't shut up. You truly have nothing better to do with your life. Are you still in high school by chance? Get a life. Spend some time with your family or friends assuming they have anything to do with you. Please just shut the fuck up.


Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:30 pm
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Post Re: It's Actually Worse Than It Looks
run faster wrote:
Your first paragraph claims that JMU was able to get Vad because of his relationship with Withers. Then, your second paragraph lists how frequent it is that JMU has an FBS transfer QB leading the way. In saying the latter, you're admitting that JMU gets FBS QBs, and it has very little to do with who the head coach is at the time . . . except in the case of Vad? Yeah, that doesn't make much sense.

Previously you had stated, (1) "They lucked into getting a very talented grad transfer at QB" and (2) "An FCS getting a starting QB from an ACC school is "luck."

I clearly point out that your first use of "luck" isn't true as Vad Lee had a previous relationship with EW and Lee has stated that EW was the reason he first looked into JMU. I don't contradict myself here as Houston did not recruit Connor Mitch or DiNucci out of high school so there was no previous relationship. So yes, in the case of getting Lee (not just any FBS QB), it mattered A LOT who the coach was.

In regards to your (2) use of "lucky." I clearly point out that we didn't get "lucky" by getting a starting FBS QB as we have had 2 ACC starters and a SEC starters transfer to JMU since 2014.
run faster wrote:
In other words, he was 1-2 against playoff teams with Vad and 0-3 against playoff teams without Vad including needing a TD with 17 seconds left to beat a 4-7 team without Vad. My point remains the same: Withers' success at JMU (and I use that word loosely as 9-4 and 9-3 isn't a ton of success for one of the three best FCS programs/facilities) was overwhelmingly the result of having Vad. Your own attempt at refuting that supports my argument.


Ummm, with Lee in '14, we lost to UDel by 7. We won without him in '15. So I'm confused by why you are saying Vad is the key factor? Also, are we really talking about the difference between 1-2 and 0-3?

run faster wrote:
As for your defense of the last minute win against Delaware being that "Delaware . . . always plays JMU tough" . . . last year, JMU had a double-digit lead over them the entire second half. The year before that, JMU beat them by 20+ points. I guess Delaware "always plays JMU tough" when Withers is the head coach, which further supports my argument.


The f are you talking about? You have to at least get the facts right. Last year we were up 17-10 at halftime which include us scoring on a fumble return. We ended up winning 20-10 which included kicking a FG with 2 minutes left in the game. This is while we in the middle of an 18 game winning streak, in the middle of a 14-1 season, and they were a 7-5 team. This is exactly my point, they play us tough. Last year we won the first three playoff games by an average of 19 but needed a defensive TD and 4Q FG to beat a 7-5 team by 10.

In '16, when we beat them by 20+, their HC was fired in the middle of the season. In '15, we won by 3. In '14, we lost by 7. In '13 we lost by 7. In '10 we lost by 3 which is the same year they went to the national title game and we went 6-5.

So yeah, I'd say that is the exact scenario of two teams always playing each other tough.


Last edited by JMU_FAN on Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:52 pm
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Post Re: It's Actually Worse Than It Looks
run faster wrote:
There are at least ten top FCS schools and at least six HBCUs where football is far more relevant nationally than the product that San Marcos has fielded over the last few years. Hell, look at how many FCS schools have wins against FBS teams over the last 2.5 years and compare that to how many wins Texas State has over FBS teams.
......
The truth is that we made an awful hire who has continued to make awful hires.
......
It is absurdly stupid that you think a JMU fan - a school which would kick our ass and has had far more success after Withers left - would spend time on here due to being mad at Withers.


Despite our back and forth about Lee's impact on Withers, I agree with all of the above. Don't confuse me downplaying Lee as propping up EW. EW is not a good Xs and Os coach. I disagree that he doesn't know how to run a program in the sense that he made JMU feel like FBS and I'm sure he is making TXST's program feel like P5 (including stealing Louisville's motto). I will state that he also f'ked over recruits and HS coaches his first year at JMU by rescinding scholarships and telling a recruit that it was better that his scholarship was pulled as they wouldn't play at JMU anyway (loose quote there). With that though, I will give him credit for being a recruiter/fundraiser. He implemented a new high level donor group at JMU that is continuing to do great things for our program. If he could hire talented assistants/cordinators, and let them coach, he could run a successful program. I could equate him to your boss that doesn't have a clue what is going on but that you enjoy working for.

I didn't drop in cause I am mad at EW, I already said I appreciated his time at JMU. I dropped in to help explain so of the historical stuff as it was clear NOBODY really knew about his time at JMU.

I'm not going to continue my back and forth as I cannot speed you up on all things JMU/FCS/CAA to make you understand that while the majority of your facts are true, you are drawing incorrect or incomplete conclusions on some of the stuff.


Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:12 pm
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https://twitter.com/barrick4heisman/sta ... 8048855040

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Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:18 pm
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cgd469 wrote:
Holy shit. You just won't shut up. You truly have nothing better to do with your life. Are you still in high school by chance? Get a life. Spend some time with your family or friends assuming they have anything to do with you. Please just shut the fuck up.


Eh, I get his point of view. I'm making an assumption here, but I figure he's an alumnus like many of us here, who has been watching us underachieve for years and he's frustrated.

This is how he vents his frustration.

Granted, his sole focus seems to be deriding Withers, but he's the current face of the program. That's his burden to bear.

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Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:21 pm
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Bobcat87 wrote:
Are we all supposed to put on maroon and gold glasses and pretend that the last 30 years never happened? If you'll remember, EW was the one that rode into town and in his first presser said what "fan" was short for, said we shouldn't be patient, cause he wasn't going to be either. Yet here we are in year 3 looking just as bad as year one


One of the few posters I don't automatically skip over. I use this quote quite frequently on here and in conversation to "continually justify our unique situation" that none of my peers understand because they have not ever gone through anything remotely similar and can't imagine how this could ever even happen. Even the worst teams in the country go to some toilet bowl every 3-5 years, yet here we are in FBS season 7 and anyone on here who expects marked improvements 32 months into a hire is quickly labeled a lunatic? How is that? If he has recruited the right talented players already on his team and he has just so poorly evaluated his talent pool that he are starting the wrong 22, and if that's actually truly the case maybe he just isn't cut out for the job? It doesn't help that we had a 3 win season the year before withers got here so to us fans who have been through it all it starts to run together through the years regardless of who is coach. Though he isn't responsible for the 2015 season results but the weight of going into a 4th straight season of projected failure tends to fall at the feet of the fan base. Posting 2 straight lesser records than one of the worst head coaches in the game (Fran) didn't help his case either no matter how you want to justify it. One thing Withers did was sign up for us and said he would fix it but we still can't point to one tangible thing he's done after all this time to say things are going to be fine after back to back blow out losses to Troy and now Rutgers.

Whose to say there will be a drastic change next season like everyone expects if this year doesn't go well just by pulling in 1 more class? If they're all true freshman and likely very few instant contributors it's up to the same rs freshman sophomores and juniors this season who under-performed against Rutgers to rise up next season and based off last game there isn't a glimmer of hope that they're even starting to rise up.

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Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:47 am
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Saul Goodman wrote:
https://twitter.com/barrick4heisman/status/1037805268048855040

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im pretty sure run faster is just taximan back under a new handle with the teen angst of the green parrot poster. i wish will butler would come back as our beat writer that way we could at least salvage a humorous and entertaining year despite what actually ends up happening on the field


Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:20 am
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