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 Cautiously negative 
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Post Cautiously negative
Been away for a while busy with life but thought I'd barge in and give my 2 cents. Based on very limited info and 2 decades of past play, I'm thinking we will suck again.

Thoughts.

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Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:46 pm
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Post Re: Cautiously negative
I think this didn't need a new thread.

Thoughts?


Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:26 pm
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Post Re: Cautiously negative
tpopt wrote:
Been away for a while busy with life but thought I'd barge in and give my 2 cents. Based on very limited info and 2 decades of past play, I'm thinking we will suck again.

Thoughts.




Well, this season hinges more on the level of suckyness. Even by Bobcat standards, anything less than 4-8 SHOULD be unacceptable. We've never had this bad of a sub-500 run in school history without any indication we are moving out of the hole.


Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:15 pm
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Post Re: Cautiously negative
It’s crazy this is the issue that’s gonna make me break my silence but I can’t hold my tounge on the matter any longer. It absolutely blows my mind how every one thinks it’s “okay” if we have a 3-9 season or a 4-8 season as long as we show improvement and the losses dont look bad. What? This is division one football. Fran was literally winning 3 times as many games a season with way way way way less talent on the field than withers has. 2-10 2 seasons is unacceptable. 2-10,2-10, and 3-9 or 4-8 in 3 seasons Is unacceptable. If you can’t line up on any given Saturday and seriously compete with your conferance let alone seriously compete with the fcs teams we face something is wrong at the top. This is make or break season for withers IMO. 5 wins or he’s out and 5 is a low low number it’s a shame that 5 is the bar. I’m a huge withers fan but I’m not gonna sit here and let him take 8 seasons to get a winning record.


Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:30 pm
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Post Re: Cautiously negative
MRN MAVERICK wrote:
It’s crazy this is the issue that’s gonna make me break my silence but I can’t hold my tounge on the matter any longer. It absolutely blows my mind how every one thinks it’s “okay” if we have a 3-9 season or a 4-8 season as long as we show improvement and the losses dont look bad. What? This is division one football. Fran was literally winning 3 times as many games a season with way way way way less talent on the field than withers has. 2-10 2 seasons is unacceptable. 2-10,2-10, and 3-9 or 4-8 in 3 seasons Is unacceptable. If you can’t line up on any given Saturday and seriously compete with your conferance let alone seriously compete with the fcs teams we face something is wrong at the top. This is make or break season for withers IMO. 5 wins or he’s out and 5 is a low low number it’s a shame that 5 is the bar. I’m a huge withers fan but I’m not gonna sit here and let him take 8 seasons to get a winning record.


Nobody is saying that 3-9 or 4-8 is acceptable as a standard. It is recognizing where this program is as a whole, and understanding that progress is very rarely an overnight fix.

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Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:59 pm
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Post Re: Cautiously negative
I understand that. I guess its hard for me to cope with the fact that we are only beating one fbs school a year. It just seems like we should be able to run a squad out there and even get lucky and win one or two more fbs games. Like I said, Fran was winning 3 times the amount of games with way way way less talent. Hopefully this won’t even be an issue. I guess my bigger point here is that withers can’t stay in power with a 3-9 season imo. I want so badly for him to be successful.


Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:10 pm
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Post Re: Cautiously negative
tx.state wrote:
I think this didn't need a new thread.

Thoughts?



:D. Agree. How the heck has everyone been?

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Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:52 pm
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Post Re: Cautiously negative
How do you figure we had less talent under Fran than now? Let alone "way way way way less talent"?

Joplo Bartu, Craig Mager, David Mayo, David Mimms, and Darryl Morris all are playing now or have gotten meaningful playing time in the NFL. All played under Fran.

Also, Terrence Franks, Adrian Bellard, Will Johnson, and DJ Hall were all guys from those years who at least got training camp invites or practice squad spots.

I don't think anyone from the last two teams has even sniffed a training camp invite.

Withers' 2016 team was the least talented we've had at TXST since jumping to FBS and I don't think it's close. The last two seasons haven't had anywhere near the level of talent we had in 2013 or 2014.


Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:54 pm
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Post Re: Cautiously negative
x wrote:

I don't think anyone from the last two teams has even sniffed a training camp invite.


.



Easy went to camp with two NFL teams. Tyler Jones was a more talented QB than Texas State has had in many, many years.

x wrote:

The last two seasons haven't had anywhere near the level of talent we had in 2013 or 2014.


Much of that has to do with Withers imploding his entire roster. He didn't want most of those carry-over guys from the previous staff. Regardless of whatever his tired excuse was for it, that is his decision as head coach to make. He has to live with that decision and realize that imploding your roster simply to coach guys that you enjoy coaching will result in a long rebuilding period. If you can't get it fixed in three years, you shouldn't have taken that risk.

Though that was a strategy that hasn't seemed to work, as I have repeatedly said, his biggest mistake and his downfall will be his poor hiring. Look at the player development over two years position-by-position:

DBs: They were just as bad last year as the year before. Hell, they didn't have an INT for the entire season.

LBs: Gabe was as good as a senior as he was as a junior. Bryan London had a down year compared to his first season. Griffin improved in his second year.

D-line: Though most of the snaps were taken by new players, the previous hold-over players didn't improve. Hines was as bad this year as his first year. The backups clearly didn't improve.

O-line: There was no growth from year one to year two. Yes, there were a lot of new, young players, but as a unit, there was no improvement.

TE: Schrade was the same player from a junior to a senior. There was no improvement of the backups.

WRs: Again, was there much improvement on this unit of each player?

QBs: The young QBs seemed to digress, if anything, from early in the season to the end of the season. Williams, even as a part-time SEC starter, saw absolutely no improvement throughout the season and continued to have very poor fundamentals.

RBs: Very young - hard to judge if any progress was made due to injuries, rotation, etc.

Kicker: He seemed to digress, or at best, not get better from year one to year two.


Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:21 am
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Post Re: Cautiously negative
run faster wrote:
Much of that has to do with Withers imploding his entire roster. He didn't want most of those carry-over guys from the previous staff. Regardless of whatever his tired excuse was for it, that is his decision as head coach to make. He has to live with that decision and realize that imploding your roster simply to coach guys that you enjoy coaching will result in a long rebuilding period. If you can't get it fixed in three years, you shouldn't have taken that risk.


Gotta ask... Who did Withers kick off the team that was so much more talented than what we had last year or have this year?

Going purely off memory here, I don't remember losing too many key starters. Most were backups who never really saw much PT at all. However, that is going purely off memory, and "the purge" was 2 years ago, so... yeah, I could be absolutely wrong here.

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Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:01 am
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run faster wrote:
Much of that has to do with Withers imploding his entire roster. He didn't want most of those carry-over guys from the previous staff. Regardless of whatever his tired excuse was for it, that is his decision as head coach to make. He has to live with that decision and realize that imploding your roster simply to coach guys that you enjoy coaching will result in a long rebuilding period. If you can't get it fixed in three years, you shouldn't have taken that risk.


Gotta ask... Who did Withers kick off the team that was so much more talented than what we had last year or have this year?

Going purely off memory here, I don't remember losing too many key starters. Most were backups who never really saw much PT at all. However, that is going purely off memory, and "the purge" was 2 years ago, so... yeah, I could be absolutely wrong here.

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Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:01 am
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x wrote:
How do you figure we had less talent under Fran than now? Let alone "way way way way less talent"?

Joplo Bartu, Craig Mager, David Mayo, David Mimms, and Darryl Morris all are playing now or have gotten meaningful playing time in the NFL. All played under Fran.

Also, Terrence Franks, Adrian Bellard, Will Johnson, and DJ Hall were all guys from those years who at least got training camp invites or practice squad spots.

I don't think anyone from the last two teams has even sniffed a training camp invite.

Withers' 2016 team was the least talented we've had at TXST since jumping to FBS and I don't think it's close. The last two seasons haven't had anywhere near the level of talent we had in 2013 or 2014.


I’m going strictly of recruiting classes as a whole. Yes withers guysbare young but as a whole they grade out much higher as a group than Frans recruiting. Speaking from 247 recruiting.


Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:17 am
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Post Re: Cautiously negative
TheRevSWT wrote:

Gotta ask... Who did Withers kick off the team that was so much more talented than what we had last year or have this year?

Going purely off memory here, I don't remember losing too many key starters. Most were backups who never really saw much PT at all. However, that is going purely off memory, and "the purge" was 2 years ago, so... yeah, I could be absolutely wrong here.



Besides his best running back (Tutt) who had offers from Iowa, Boise State, La Tech, etc. and perhaps his fastest player (Morbley)?

Yeah, he kicked off a lot of guys who weren't starters. Do you know what that results in? No backups if a starter goes down, no developing those backups into quality starters, and winning 2 FBS games (one over a team that just moved to FBS) over two seasons.

But, again, his turnover of the roster plays second-fiddle to his hiring practices.


Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:07 pm
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run faster wrote:
Besides his best running back (Tutt) who had offers from Iowa, Boise State, La Tech, etc. and perhaps his fastest player (Morbley)?

Yeah, he kicked off a lot of guys who weren't starters. Do you know what that results in? No backups if a starter goes down, no developing those backups into quality starters, and winning 2 FBS games (one over a team that just moved to FBS) over two seasons.

But, again, his turnover of the roster plays second-fiddle to his hiring practices.


I was very excited about Tutt, but he didn't do anything for us, and to the best of my recollection (which we've already established is iffy at best) didn't go anywhere to do anything either.

Morbley was a shame, and he did contribute some... But if that's all he ran off in the form of contributors, that's really not something to get all up in arms over.

And in your statement about how there's no backups if a starter goes down, and no developing backups into starters... If they weren't very good to begin with (not good enough to earn PT on a Fran 3-9 injury riddled team), are you really expecting them to provide quality depth or develop into starters?

That just seems unreasonable.

Don't get me wrong... I get that the Purge ran off a bunch of kids. I can't recall the name, but there was a starting OL that decided to graduate early as opposed to go through the Purge which obviously hurt in year 1. But at the same time, I'd rather take a chance and try to build a consistent winner than to hope for status quo and keep eeking out 6-6 seasons.

But that's just me talking. That's how I'm trying ot look at it.

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Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:13 pm
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Post Re: Cautiously negative
TheRevSWT wrote:

I was very excited about Tutt, but he didn't do anything for us, and to the best of my recollection (which we've already established is iffy at best) didn't go anywhere to do anything either.

Morbley was a shame, and he did contribute some... But if that's all he ran off in the form of contributors, that's really not something to get all up in arms over.

And in your statement about how there's no backups if a starter goes down, and no developing backups into starters... If they weren't very good to begin with (not good enough to earn PT on a Fran 3-9 injury riddled team), are you really expecting them to provide quality depth or develop into starters?

That just seems unreasonable.

Don't get me wrong... I get that the Purge ran off a bunch of kids. I can't recall the name, but there was a starting OL that decided to graduate early as opposed to go through the Purge which obviously hurt in year 1. But at the same time, I'd rather take a chance and try to build a consistent winner than to hope for status quo and keep eeking out 6-6 seasons.

But that's just me talking. That's how I'm trying ot look at it.




Holy smokes you make more excuses than a three year old who can barely talk, and said three year old has better grasp on football at this point than you do. Your love for all things Withers clouds your judgement beyond belief.


Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:52 pm
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