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 4-8 vs 2-10 
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Post 4-8 vs 2-10
:sombrero: :sombrero: :sombrero:
:texasstate: :texasstate: :texasstate:


What happens or do you foresee happening if we have another 2-10 or 1-11 season?

What if we go 3-9 or 4-8?


On the former, I think the buyout option definitely has to be on the table, but I am more intrigued on the latter prospect.

If y'all remember, Wright won two conference championships and was let go after a 4-8 season and Franchione was run out of town after a 3-9 season despite having back to back Bowl Eligible seasons.


Where I'm going with on this is why would Withers be given more leeway with worse records and for higher pay when two semi-successful coaches (by Texas State standards) were shown the door?

This seems like a make or break season for Texas State and particularly Withers. I don't foresee anything less than a 4-8 season with marked improvement as a success. Thoughts?


Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:11 pm
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Post Re: 4-8 vs 2-10
The simple answer is that your argument is fundamentally flawed.

Wright and Teis had an oil/water relationship, as well as Wright providing ample reasons with his pettiness and fights with the only media we had that covered us.

Fran also wasn't run out of town, he retired. Teis didn't want him to leave, and even gave him a week or two (memory is fading) to really make sure he wanted to retire. The fans (and players if rumors are to be believed) wanted Fran gone, not Teis.

So... yet again, your animosity for Withers has shown through. Try using a better argument (compare him to some NFL coach for hyperbole's sake!), and you might be closer to having a real discussion.

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Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:11 am
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Post Re: 4-8 vs 2-10
Withers is not the issue. It’s the Athletic Director and his department. Larry Teis should be shown the door. After that, let the New AD audit each coaching position before making changes.

Plain and simple, the reason behind the mediocre and frustration is Texas State Athletics has a Management Problem. You fire Teis at the end of the year you will see a rise in revenue by this time next year.


Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:43 am
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Post Re: 4-8 vs 2-10
Bobcat.taxman wrote:
Franchione was run out of town

fran quit

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Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:08 am
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Post Re: 4-8 vs 2-10
BobcatDis wrote:
You fire Teis at the end of the year you will see a rise in revenue by this time next year.


Agree with your sentiment, but not with this.

Our fan base is known for its fickleness at best/apathy at worst. We fire Teis and the majority of donors would say "Well, I'll donate if they hire such and such AD".

After they hire such and such AD that half of the donors hate, the ones that approve will increase their annual $100 donation to $125 "once he's hired the right HC".

Donors will then threaten to take their hard-earned tips elsewhere if "that HC doesn't get this team bowl eligible in year three", or "if he doesn't win this bowl game", or "if he doesn't play such and such at quarterback" or "move said quarterback to cornerback".

The big fish donors we have carry stipulations and we don't have enough small fish to rock the boat. Having varied opinions on where your program should be heading is not unusual in college football, but when you don't have a foundation of die-hards that give no matter what, there are too many cooks in the kitchen and the easy thing to do becomes maintenance of the status quo.

That's why made-from-scratch programs like UTSA have a window where things are easy They have to capitalize on their first few years, but they're launching a good looking ship. Whether it sails in the right direction or not, base supporters who want to see if the boat floats will pony up the dough for launch. Meanwhile we're already out at sea in an ocean liner trying to bail out water with buckets and change direction with wooden oars. And damnit, if the video boards aren't the right size, I'll be damned if I help.

So Teis is here until he decides to leave because he put a train car in the outfield and navigated a student-funded/initiated move to FBS. They will make a statue of Teis long before he leaves due to anything outside of his own volition. The only way to fix that is to fix the aforementioned donorship issues. Welcome to the bizarre nightmare/fantasy cycle that is Bobcat fandom.

It's comforting to think that things will change when the thing that won't change changes. It's nice and grounding. But we have to "BE THE CHANGE" (or some shit. whatever. hell I don't care).

/annual rant.

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Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:58 am
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Post Re: 4-8 vs 2-10
SanMarcosWay wrote:
BobcatDis wrote:

That's why made-from-scratch programs like UTSA have a window where things are easy They have to capitalize on their first few years, but they're launching a good looking ship. Whether it sails in the right direction or not, base supporters who want to see if the boat floats will pony up the dough for launch. Meanwhile we're already out at sea in an ocean liner trying to bail out water with buckets and change direction with wooden oars. And damnit, if the video boards aren't the right size, I'll be damned if I help.

So Teis is here until he decides to leave because he put a train car in the outfield and navigated a student-funded/initiated move to FBS. They will make a statue of Teis long before he leaves due to anything outside of his own volition. The only way to fix that is to fix the aforementioned donorship issues. Welcome to the bizarre nightmare/fantasy cycle that is Bobcat fandom.

It's comforting to think that things will change when the thing that won't change changes. It's nice and grounding. But we have to "BE THE CHANGE" (or some shit. whatever. hell I don't care).

/annual rant.


THAT is how you bitch, ladies and gentlemen.


Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:19 pm
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Post Re: 4-8 vs 2-10
TheRevSWT wrote:
The simple answer is that your argument is fundamentally flawed.

Wright and Teis had an oil/water relationship, as well as Wright providing ample reasons with his pettiness and fights with the only media we had that covered us.


I'm not sure how you can say his argument is fundamentally flawed when your arguments pertaining to Wright also hold true for Withers.

If you don't think Withers and Teis have an oil/water relationship, then you should ask around. There is no love lost between the two. They have had multiple in-person, heated arguments that have spilled over into involving Trauth at some points.

The first thing that is going to lead to Withers' termination before his contract expires is his bad hiring practices. The second thing is his inability to build productive relationships - or even fake them - with his superiors.

And you don't think he is condescending to local media? Come on.

Everything you said about Wright is also applicable to Withers.


Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:38 pm
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Post Re: 4-8 vs 2-10
How has he been condescending?


Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:05 pm
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Post Re: 4-8 vs 2-10
I can't speak to the Withers/Teis relationship as I have no contacts within the system. I don't think Teis particularly likes him, but I know Withers hasn't called out the AD in an interview, or after a game, went straight after the only beat writer on our team.

Teis/Withers may not have a good relationship (the way you term it, that is putting it mildly), but Withers has yet to be an embarrassment in his dealings with the press. Condescending? Sure. But embarrassment? Not quite.

So yeah... Taxman's own personal bias is causing him to show a fundamentally flawed argument.

Now this one might be incorrect (memory is the second thing to go they say), but wasn't Wright in the last year of his contract? Or did he have 2 years left after the extension?

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Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:07 pm
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Post Re: 4-8 vs 2-10
In defense of both Wright and Withers, I bet it's tough having Larry Teis as your boss.


Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:28 pm
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Post Re: 4-8 vs 2-10
One thing we all need to pay attention to is how we lose. I can deal with a loss when we are competitive against decent competition. I cannot deal with loss in the form of in-conference blowouts and low-effort (physical effort and creative/adaptive coaching effort). Withers has had a lot of losses that, while somewhat understandable, fall into the blowout/low-effort category.

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Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:04 pm
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Post Re: 4-8 vs 2-10
Bias or not, even if 3-9 season(maybe 4-8) for EW, his seat has got to be getting warm to hot.

But from the looks of coaches poll, 4-8 might be a stretch.


Last edited by BobcatBuddy96 on Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:11 pm
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Post Re: 4-8 vs 2-10
Some pretty freezing cold takes here today.


Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:13 pm
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Post Re: 4-8 vs 2-10
BobcatBuddy96 wrote:
Bias or not, even if 3-9 season(maybe 4-8) for EW, his seat has got to be getting warm to hot.

But from the looks of coaches poll, 4-8 might be a stretch.


To me (and this is only me talking), I would say a 4-8 season is acceptable and pointing upwards, assuming there aren't any mind boggling blowout games.

I get that we're either starting a true frosh or red shirt frosh QB, I get that we have o-line problems, I get that we had a lot of attrition (some that was intentional by Withers). That doesn't matter to me. The lack of O-line, the new QB, these are all known issues that he wrought upon himself.

I don't think I'm being unreasonable in my request for a baseline of 4 wins this year. I am sure others will disagree, and to be honest, some have valid points. But at this point in his tenure, there needs to be signs of improvement that result in W's, not just in closeness of play (like we saw last season).

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Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:41 pm
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Post Re: 4-8 vs 2-10
I think the majority that disagree with you disagree because they expect more than 4 wins.

My expectation is 3-5 wins based on what I've seen the last couple of seasons, what I know we have returning, and what I know of the incoming players. We have to beat TSU, we have to win a minimum of 1-2 conference games, and we need to win a minimum of 3-4 games overall for the season to not be a complete failure. Another 2-10 season isn't ok in year 3 and I doubt you'll find anyone on this forum that would say it is. Very few will probably tell you 3-9 is ok either.

Agree with BG that how we look in losses is important too. The one thing that kept me ok with last year was it was pretty apparent 2017 TXST was superior to 2016 TXST even if they both went 2-10.

TheRevSWT wrote:
I get that we're either starting a true frosh or red shirt frosh QB


The frontrunner to win the QB job as of now is a sophomore.


Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:27 pm
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