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 Coaching Addition 
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I don't know that it's fair to put Coastal in that group as they only have ONE season of transition.

Also, in looking at the list (and my quick read through is NOT in any way comprehensive), but South Alabama, Georgia State and UTSA were both new teams that were created from scratch. While they did have a season playing FCS teams, they were NOT FCS football schools. I think one of the F_U schools also was the case. Wouldn't you agree on that point?

Taking a step further, considering that Fran in his tenure did NOT beat a single FBS team (or he may have his last year, I can't recall) with a winning record, which to be honest, may be moot as the other schools that fared equal to or better than us might not have either (save for Georgia Southern and App State, as I know they did). But that is a tremendous indictment on Fran during his tenure which gives me (and I'd wager many here) great pause in saying he helped us transition well.

Adding to that notion was that basically, Fran built the team for his 3-9 year, as it was a senior deep team with little depth for the next season (kind of like how Bailiff had us set up in 2005).

If anything, at best, I'd say he kept on with our football history: overall just below average (a couple of decent seasons coupled with a couple of crap seasons.

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Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:53 pm
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I have to agree with run faster here and I've said it multiple times both during the Fran tenure and since, Fran did a decent job of transitioning a sub-par FCS team to a competitive G5 FBS team from the time he stepped on campus through the 2014 season.

Given our lack of success at the FCS level I almost expected to put up multiple 1-2 win seasons in our first few FBS seasons. Brad Wright went 4-7 his final season at TXST competing at the FCS level (and 4-7 seasons were the norm for the bulk majority of our time at the FCS level). Fran went 4-8, 6-6, 7-5 in his first 3 seasons at the FBS level with a jump in the level of competition most on here don't truly understand. How that could be considered anything short of a successful transition I don't know. Fran only beat teams with losing records? OK. I wish we could get back to doing that so we could be around a .500 team again. Can't use that against Fran when we can't beat anybody but FCS teams since he left.

I don't know what the hell 2015 was and I was glad to see Fran go cause I think he had already maxed out his potential at TXST. 2015 probably set Withers back considerably and I hold Fran accountable for whatever caused that mess, but prior to 2015 Fran transitioned us to the FBS level successfully.

All that being said, I haven't given up on Withers yet. Fran left us ultra late in January of 2016. Withers had two weeks basically to cobble up a 2016 class. We had crazy amounts of attrition going into the 2016 season for various reasons. And for anyone with eyeballs and even a basic understanding of the game you could see that 2016 team wasn't very talented, was very undersized, and was very thin. By mid-season 2016 it was apparent this was going to be a multi-year rebuild. The 2017 team would have trounced the 2016 if they played head-to-head though both finished with 2-10 records. I question whether the decision to burn the thing to the ground and rebuild from scratch was the right move, but we're too far invested at this point to not see how it pans out in the end. I just pray it doesn't end in complete failure.


Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:48 am
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x wrote:
Fran did a decent job of transitioning a sub-par FCS team to a competitive G5 FBS team from the time he stepped on campus through the 2014 season.

not sure i really agree w/ those adjectives. just looking at the better seasons before/after the coaching change, is 6-6/7-5 in fbs really better than 8-5/7-4 in fcs?

of those 13 wins for fran, 7 were over teams w/ 2 or fewer wins, 2 were fcs teams (9-12 combined records), and only 1 was over an fbs team w/ a winning record (7-6 arkst). not particularly competitive in my eyes.

don't know that conference standing is a great metric to compare either, but we finished higher in 08/09 than we have at any time since. 3-9 is certainly worse than 4-7 on the way out.


x wrote:
Fran only beat teams with losing records? OK. I wish we could get back to doing that so we could be around a .500 team again. Can't use that against Fran when we can't beat anybody but FCS teams since he left.

certainly a fair point. that said, those types of teams (2 or fewer w) aren't on our schedule any more. i'd take wins over those 3 and 4w teams though...

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Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:44 pm
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That's all good, but when do we see/or expect to see progress made by EW and the football team in terms of a few more wins a season?


Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:05 pm
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i would have hoped to see it last year w/ wins over ulm and nmsu. we did get a little unlucky w/ the conf schedule in that we didn't get 3 of the 4 other crappy teams in the conference. 2 are back for this season so *fingers crossed*.

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Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:16 pm
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x wrote:
I have to agree with run faster here and I've said it multiple times both during the Fran tenure and since, Fran did a decent job of transitioning a sub-par FCS team to a competitive G5 FBS team from the time he stepped on campus through the 2014 season.


I don't know that I'd call our teams G5 FBS competitive at any point in Fran's tenure (or EW's, obviously).

I think it was the Wyoming game where he beat a team that ended the season at .500 or better.

Compared to now? You bet, I get that we played better, but that doesn't make us a competitive G5 program.

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Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:07 pm
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TheRevSWT wrote:
I think it was the Wyoming game where he beat a team that ended the season at .500 or better.

wyo finished 5-7.
Saul Goodman wrote:
only 1 was over an fbs team w/ a winning record (7-6 arkst).

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Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:14 pm
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x wrote:
Fran only beat teams with losing records? OK. I wish we could get back to doing that so we could be around a .500 team again. Can't use that against Fran when we can't beat anybody but FCS teams since he left.


This is just what I've been trying forever to hammer into the heads of everyone who tries to tell everyone to be patient or more understanding of our unique little situation. "Be patient", "be understanding", "be advised of the context", "be realistic", be giving of slack"..... well you can be all of this and that or whatever but all I want to do is beat the below average teams that Fran got decent at.

Fran was....

2-1 vs nmsu
3-1 vs idaho
2-1 vs usa
2-1 vs ulm
2-1 vs gast

Please just get me back to the equivalent of those days in year 3 on paper even though they weren't even that good. In year 3 he's had the opportunity for half of the scholarship players to be 'his' regardless of whether or not he's done so and he'll have had nearly 3 calendar years to "coach up" a mixture of his and Frans players come September.

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Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:31 pm
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We might have won but it was bleeding eyes boring football. I used to keep track and think there was one game where the team was losing at halftime and they came back. They blew a lot of halftime leads too. Same goes for EW.

It is just humorous arguing who is less bad. They are both bad so far. Being a Bobcat fan is the best.


Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:24 pm
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Guess it depends what you consider boring. I'd argue that losing 21/22 FBS games (21/21 FBS games if you consider transitional Coastal FCS) is pretty boring because doing something that many times in a row gets really old.

But the thing is Fran ball wasn't that boring at all scoreboard wise... almost every G5 game score was kept pretty close after the WAC season (take away opponents WKU and ULL). We didn't ever win by a lot and we didn't ever really lose by a lot. Lots of narrow victories and narrow losses (namely 2014 season...we could have been 10-2... then again we could have been 4-8. At least you got a feeling of a rush every game not knowing whether or not we would win or lose. The past 2 seasons we've always known we would lose and keep losing and that's not any fun either.

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Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:47 pm
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Post Re: Coaching Addition
But we were never building TOWARDS anything. Fran would recruit more JUCO's and plug in for another 6-6 season. It's not that hard a plan. What Withers is doing require some vision, direction, and some cojones. He may not pull it off, but at least there's a plan in place. You have to give him the room to execute.

If your goal for the program is the Fran shit show, I'm sure Larry is absolutely happy about that and will gladly accommodate you.


Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:04 pm
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Bobbumman wrote:
Guess it depends what you consider boring. I'd argue that losing 21/22 FBS games (21/21 FBS games if you consider transitional Coastal FCS) is pretty boring because doing something that many times in a row gets really old.

But the thing is Fran ball wasn't that boring at all scoreboard wise... almost every G5 game score was kept pretty close after the WAC season (take away opponents WKU and ULL). We didn't ever win by a lot and we didn't ever really lose by a lot. Lots of narrow victories and narrow losses (namely 2014 season...we could have been 10-2... then again we could have been 4-8. At least you got a feeling of a rush every game not knowing whether or not we would win or lose. The past 2 seasons we've always known we would lose and keep losing and that's not any fun either.


Now sucks too. It just sucked that even when we won it wasn't fun to watch. But you are right, at least they won. Until Frans swan song.


Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:55 pm
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twinky maybe jucos arent the answer but neither is recruiting 18 yr old freshman if hes just going to ultimately kick them out of the program anyway for one thing or another. that strategy hasnt been sustainable for withers thus far either. id suggest withers do a better job of evaluating character when pulling guys on campus. maybe ‘run faster’ should have the chance to coach some of our games this year. i just want to see withers actually pissed off at HIMSELF for losing and take the blame publicly. that would be a start to forward progress


Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:33 pm
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Withers has already lost most students and every 2 win season he loses more of his own players with his tough coaching philosophy. That being said I hope he can get us at least 4-5 wins next year but I won’t hold my breath.


Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:42 pm
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I hope we can get to 4-8 this season. When do we know if EW plan is working?
Some of his recruits are upperclassmen by now, and more for 2019. If not much difference in the win column we might as well be running in place.


Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:31 pm
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