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Texas State has hired former Houston St Pius HC Stephen Hill as Director of HS Relations. Judging from the Twitter reaction, this seems like a solid hire.

https://twitter.com/Matt_Stepp817/statu ... 1217744896

https://twitter.com/CoachHill_7/status/ ... 6760158208

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Tue May 29, 2018 9:23 pm
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it's an excellent hire. hits multiple targets: we needed a txhs coach on staff (believe the only one w/ any exp there is antoine?)and we needed that role (new position for staff). he's a damn good coach and has put some serious talent in college the last couple of years.

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Wed May 30, 2018 10:23 am
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That’s out of left field and generates some hope. Salty hire for sure that will get TXST Football some much needed credibility


Wed May 30, 2018 3:22 pm
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It took him three years to determine that it may be beneficial to get some guys who have coached in Texas before on his staff.

It's too late for them to plug all of the leaks in the boat.


Wed May 30, 2018 9:12 pm
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24 hours before the first dark cloud post in a silver lining thread. might be a new record.

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Wed May 30, 2018 9:30 pm
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run faster wrote:
It took him three years to determine that it may be beneficial to get some guys who have coached in Texas before on his staff.

It's too late for them to plug all of the leaks in the boat.


I remember Withers saying once that Texas has lots of hs talent to go around.
Let's hope they can tap into the top tier with this hire.


Thu May 31, 2018 4:04 pm
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BobcatBuddy96 wrote:

I remember Withers saying once that Texas has lots of hs talent to go around.
Let's hope they can tap into the top tier with this hire.


That's going to be a tough sell. Let me try:

"Hey, I know we are going to be fired a year after you get here, but come redshirt under this staff, and hopefully the next head guy will make better hires and win some games while you're here."


Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:35 pm
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Short of another 2 win season, I can't see Larry stepping up and buying out Withers' contract.

I know others who are more connected than I say his seat is warm... But man, if Larry kept Nutt around after that dumpster fire that was basketball... I just can't see Larry spending the money on a buyout.

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Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:56 pm
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What makes you think Withers is only here 1 more year? Seriously.

Are you holding against him the record of the past 2 years? If so, why?

If not, why would he only be here 1 more year?


Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:57 pm
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Saul Goodman wrote:
24 hours before the first dark cloud post in a silver lining thread. might be a new record.


Progress.


Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:56 pm
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txstlinds wrote:
What makes you think Withers is only here 1 more year? Seriously.

Are you holding against him the record of the past 2 years? If so, why?

If not, why would he only be here 1 more year?


Read better. I said "a year after they [the kids they are recruiting now] get to TX State."

The kids they are recruiting now just finished their high school junior year. If Withers is gone a year after they get here, that would mean after two more seasons of Texas State football. That would leave a one year buyout.

Am I holding the last two year records against him? Yes, to a certain extent. The common thought is that a coach is in a honeymoon period for the first couple of years. That's bullshit. If a coach took over Alabama tomorrow and went 1-11 with them each of the next two years, should he not be blamed for that? After all, he doesn't have his recruits in there, had to get rid of some cancers on the team, doesn't have his system in place yet, etc. So, why should he be blamed, right? See how absurd that thought process is? If a coach comes in and sees a drastic drop in success, he absolutely can be blamed for results after two years.

Withers took over a team that had gone 4-8, 6-6, 7-5, and 3-9 the previous four years. By no means, is that a stellar run of four years, but Withers has made the program substantially worse than those four years. Now, he claims he had to clean house and get rid of a bunch of kids who didn't buy in. The veracity of that can be questioned. Regardless, part of being an effective head coach is to influence kids to buy in. If that many (the amount he cut/kicked off) kids don't buy in, there is something wrong.

Of course, Withers never takes responsibility for the lackluster production. It is always somebody else's fault: constantly blames the last staff for having bad talent/bad kids on the team; fights with the AD and claims their budget isn't good enough to succeed; blames high school coaches for giving bad recommendations to the recruits who don't pan out; blames certain position groups for failure even though he has refused to hire somebody who has the ability to properly coach them; blames the school for having rampant drug problems among the students resulting in no football support . . . it's never his fault. Hell, look at the end of the Appalachian State game. After moving the ball to the 9 yard line with 15 seconds left, he called a timeout after a first down! The clock stops for a significant amount of time after a first down! You have time to get lined up and spike it while only losing 2-3 seconds of clock, yet he burned the last timeout Texas State had! If he hadn't called a timeout, Texas State would still have had at least three plays to throw into the endzone. That is amateur hour.

A friend who lives two doors down from me has daily insight into the program. The things he used to tell me during last season were mind-boggling about what goes on over there.

Can you be blamed for taking over a bad program and not seeing much success after two years? That would be tough to place blame. But you absolutely can be blamed for taking an average to below-average program and making it terrible for the next two seasons with no success in view.


Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:58 am
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run faster wrote:
Read better. I said "a year after they [the kids they are recruiting now] get to TX State."

The kids they are recruiting now just finished their high school junior year. If Withers is gone a year after they get here, that would mean after two more seasons of Texas State football. That would leave a one year buyout.

Okay, I'll try and read better

Am I holding the last two year records against him? Yes, to a certain extent. The common thought is that a coach is in a honeymoon period for the first couple of years. That's bullshit. If a coach took over Alabama tomorrow and went 1-11 with them each of the next two years, should he not be blamed for that? After all, he doesn't have his recruits in there, had to get rid of some cancers on the team, doesn't have his system in place yet, etc. So, why should he be blamed, right? See how absurd that thought process is? If a coach comes in and sees a drastic drop in success, he absolutely can be blamed for results after two years.

Did...did you just compare TXST's situation with a hypothetical coaching change at Alabama? Secondly, going from 3-9 to 2-10 is not a drastic drop in success.

Withers took over a team that had gone 4-8, 6-6, 7-5, and 3-9 the previous four years. By no means, is that a stellar run of four years, but Withers has made the program substantially worse than those four years. Now, he claims he had to clean house and get rid of a bunch of kids who didn't buy in. The veracity of that can be questioned. Regardless, part of being an effective head coach is to influence kids to buy in. If that many (the amount he cut/kicked off) kids don't buy in, there is something wrong.

Dude, it's not a secret that a not insignificant number of players at the end of Fran and the beginning of Withers didn't buy into much besides the square. It's also not a secret that the cupboard was pretty fucking bare already. Have you gone back and looked at the c/o 2014, 2015 and seen how few players contributed? Now there have been major contributors but also a lot that never saw the field.

Of course, Withers never takes responsibility for the lackluster production. It is always somebody else's fault: 1)constantly blames the last staff for having bad talent/bad kids on the team; 2) fights with the AD and claims their budget isn't good enough to succeed; 3) blames high school coaches for giving bad recommendations to the recruits who don't pan out; blames certain position groups for failure even though he has refused to hire somebody who has the ability to properly coach them; 5)blames the school for having rampant drug problems among the students resulting in no football support . . . it's never his fault. Hell, look at the end of the Appalachian State game. After moving the ball to the 9 yard line with 15 seconds left, he called a timeout after a first down! The clock stops for a significant amount of time after a first down! You have time to get lined up and spike it while only losing 2-3 seconds of clock, yet he burned the last timeout Texas State had! If he hadn't called a timeout, Texas State would still have had at least three plays to throw into the endzone. That is amateur hour.



1)They ARE the recruiters right? 2)Outside of a handful, what G5 coach isn't going to bitch about the recruiting budget. Also, Larry F-in Teis 3) Care to elaborate? 4) Refused to hire somebody? As in, someone said "hire X with this skillset" and EW said, NO? 5) Are you arguing there is no drug problem or arguing that EW doesn't take responsibility for it? Also, don't act like there has been football support for any prolonged period prior to EW

As for your App State game comments, yes, I agree they could have lined up and spiked it or even run a play if it was queued up. They also could have gotten a false start penalty if not everyone was set. The announcers didn't seem to have a problem with the time out and as a matter of fact they thought it was a good call to get everybody on the same page. My problem was throwing to a receiver that was not IN THE ENDZONE with no timeouts left. You have to have receivers in the endzone and if nobody is open then throw it away and try again.


A friend who lives two doors down from me has daily insight into the program. The things he used to tell me during last season were mind-boggling about what goes on over there.

Just fucking say it already

Can you be blamed for taking over a bad program and not seeing much success after two years? That would be tough to place blame. But you absolutely can be blamed for taking an average to below-average program and making it terrible for the next two seasons with no success in view.

Time will tell right? Until then, I'm going to give EW the benefit of the doubt because the program was below-average when he came in.



Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:11 pm
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Yes, the comparison shouldn't be too difficult for you to understand. A coach should be judged based on how the program has done in the years before he took it over. The program under Fran was far superior to what it has been the last two years. You can't just judge Fran's program on one year when he had a much bigger sample size than that. That is illogical. Fran took a program that had just transitioned from FCS to FBS (far from an easy task) and went 20-28 with it. Withers took over that same 20-28 program, was given far better facilities, far better salaries, and far better overall support and has gone 4-20 with it (with two of those wins being against FCS schools, one being against a first-year FBS school playing without its head coach and about 17 of its top quarterbacks). Thank god for FCS schools on the schedule!

The analogy was that something that is rolling (Alabama) should continue to roll even with a coaching switch. Something that is average should continue to at least be average with a coaching switch. Fran going 20-28 in the first four years of being FBS is not a bad job. Going 4-20 after those four years is a huge drop.

If the cupboard was so bare, what did Withers do the first 1.5 years on the job? He was hired in early January 2016. A year and a half later, he stated that this year's team (2017) wasn't more talented than last year's. So, the cupboard, according to you, was extremely bare. Yet 1.5 years later and the cupboard was as bare or more empty than when he took over? That's a hell of a waste of 1.5 years.

When you take over such a bad program (which going 20-28 in your first four years of FBS ball isn't awful), you have two options: 1) go the JUCO/transfer route and hope to win immediately but do it with older guys who won't be around long 2) scrap the entire program and rebuild from ground up knowing the first couple of years will be terrible, hope you can weather the storm, and hope you do not lose your program.

Withers clearly took the second option, right? In that case, why did he go out and plug in a one-year graduate transfer QB in the second year? If they had a plan to call it quits the first two years and build with youth and a new program, why take the most important position and get a rental player for one year? Why not give that experience to one of the young quarterbacks you signed? Why get Gabe Lloyd to come play for two seasons? You're already throwing in the towel on the first two years to rebuild the program, so doing what he did leaves you with a gaping hole of inexperience at the most important position in year three, especially after sticking them with a coach whose experience at that position was one year of D3 coaching nearly a decade ago. Christ!

There is no more of a drug problem at Texas State than at hundreds of other schools throughout the country. On any big college campus, drugs are not hard to find. Texas State is no different than any other large public institution across the country. It's a scapegoat.

Per the App. State game . . . get everyone on the same page? Are you out of your mind? They had just called a timeout the very play before after a first down! They had a three minute break right before the play because an App State player was injured and had to be helped off of the field (why was TX State not arguing to get the timeout back since the game was stopped for injury)? Run a play if it were queued up? Are you serious? There is this little thing called the two-minute drill in football. Teams should be practicing this multiple times per week. It should be discussed ad nauseam. You don't have to have anything up. You simply do what you practice in that situation; line up quickly and spike the ball. The clock had stopped. The QB and skill players should be immediately looking to the sidelines and the guys signaling the plays should all be doing whatever their kill the clock signal is. You just had a THREE MINUTE DELAY DUE TO INJURY/TIMEOUT THE VERY PLAY BEFORE! How can you not have had time to discuss the situations? Hell, even if you never practiced or discussed a two-minute drill all season, you had three minutes to talk about it just now. This is basic football.

By spiking the ball, which should have been done, it leaves you a second-and-goal with 13 seconds left; three plays to get it into the endzone. It also gives you plenty of time to think about not only what you call, but also gives the QB time to come to the sideline after that spike and be reminded that he can't take a sack, has to throw it away, etc. By keeping that one timeout, you aren't forced to throw it into the endzone. That makes defending the next plays far too easy. By having that timeout, it allows you to throw it short of the endzone if need be making the next two plays far easier to score.

Speaking of the App game, check out the YouTube video of it. Go to the 2:07 mark (the last drive of the game). Notice something? See that App State player running off of the field because they have twelve guys on the field? He clearly doesn't make it off of the field by the time the ball is snapped. In fact, he isn't even close to being off of the field. He is barely at the numbers by the time the ball is snapped. That is a play that can be challenged by review. Why are no coaches on the sideline or in the telling Withers to review the play? In doing so, the seven seconds ran off for the next play go back on the clock. It is a five yard penalty. Now, instead of 2nd-and-10 with 33 seconds left, you have 1st-and-5 with 40 seconds left and are 5 yards closer to the endzone. Again, this is basic shit (and again, was one of dozens of things I was told by neighbor during the season). Here's the video so that you can see for yourself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHhbihpGrHw

You think it was a good use of the final timeout, after a stopped-clock, to get everyone on the same page even though you just had three minutes on the sideline the play before to get everyone on the same page?

It was amateur hour during that last drive.

You keep claiming that the program was below average when Withers took over. In terms of wins and losses, Fran did a better than normal job of what to expect in the first four years of a program transitioning from FCS to FBS. Regardless if you want to believe the program was a dumpster fire, there is no question that the program has regressed substantially in wins and losses.


Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:04 pm
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run faster wrote:
You keep claiming that the program was below average when Withers took over. In terms of wins and losses, Fran did a better than normal job of what to expect in the first four years of a program transitioning from FCS to FBS. Regardless if you want to believe the program was a dumpster fire, there is no question that the program has regressed substantially in wins and losses.


What do you base this belief on?

Georgia Southern transitioned better than we did.
App State transitioned better than we did.
Marshall did too (but that was a different era and me including this is just being an ass).
UTSA has even transitioned better than we did.

So what metric are you using to say he did a better than normal job?

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Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:34 pm
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TheRevSWT wrote:
run faster wrote:
You keep claiming that the program was below average when Withers took over. In terms of wins and losses, Fran did a better than normal job of what to expect in the first four years of a program transitioning from FCS to FBS. Regardless if you want to believe the program was a dumpster fire, there is no question that the program has regressed substantially in wins and losses.


What do you base this belief on?

Georgia Southern transitioned better than we did.
App State transitioned better than we did.
Marshall did too (but that was a different era and me including this is just being an ass).
UTSA has even transitioned better than we did.

So what metric are you using to say he did a better than normal job?



Over the last dozen years, there have been 12 other schools besides TX State that made the transition from FCS to FBS. Of those 12, five have better records than Fran did. Of those five, two of them are basically the same exact record (an extra .5 wins per year). So, of the 12 other teams that transitioned, 2 were far better (App. State and Old Dominion), 1 was better by about 1 win per year more (GA Southern), and two were almost even (.5 wins better per year - FAU and UTSA). The other 7 had worse records than Fran did:

App State: 37-14
Charlotte: 18-30 (then 1-11)
Coastal: 3-9 in first year
FAU: 22-27
FIU: 11-36
Georgia Southern: 25-27
Georgia State: 10-39
UMass: 8-40
Old Dominion: 26-23
South Alabama: 19-31
Texas State: 20-28
UTSA: 22-26
Western Kentucky: 11-37

So, yes, by all accounts, Fran did better than normal compared with the other dozen teams which have made the transition over the last dozen years.

But lets look into the numbers even more. The two teams that were far better - App. State & ODU - check out their history. Before transitioning, they were already world beaters at the FCS level. ODU hadn't been playing football long, but they were dominant in FCS before the switch. Georgia Southern also was dominant before their transition, yet their first four years were only about 1 win better per year than Fran's first four years at FBS.

Now, look at Texas State's success (or lack thereof) in FCS over the decade leading up to FBS. They were under .500 in FCS in the ten years leading up to FBS. You can't expect that kind of program to suddenly perform like App. State, ODU, and Georgia Southern did in the transition. Those teams were already rolling deep in the playoffs. TX State wasn't even sniffing the playoffs most years.

That shows even more than Fran did a better job than could have been expected in terms of wins/losses after the transition.


Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:18 pm
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