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 Chris Woods - OU coach transfer? Is this a re-post? 
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Post Re: Chris Woods - OU coach transfer? Is this a re-post?
Quit getting butthurt about coaches leaving...they're going to come and go...

Withers purposely hires young, because they're eager to move up and cheap. Fleming was making $85k with the Co-OC title here at TXST. The lowest on-field coach at Ohio State makes $300k. I'm sure the off-field coaches are making well over $150k.


Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:10 pm
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Post Re: Chris Woods - OU coach transfer? Is this a re-post?
I'd be pretty thrilled if Elliott came back. Hopefully more than just QB coach though.


Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:28 pm
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Post Re: Chris Woods - OU coach transfer? Is this a re-post?
run faster wrote:
Do you have an hour to read through all of them?

yeah, sorry...not sure those are wtf. we're at the ass end of fbs. it's 100% normal for coaches to have their 1st position experience at this level. hell, p5 teams have guys in their 1st position coaching role.

mayes is here to be a recruiter. anything he gives us as a position coach is a bonus. he also has absolute dogshit to work with, other than brewer.
mateos came from lsu and arky - 2 traditionally strong ol programs. i have a much bigger issue w/ his weight than his resume.
kuhr was on withers' staff at jmu, is familiar w/ what he wants, and seems to call a pretty solid game.
mccray and his defense were the only thing keeping this team in games and decidedly better than fran's d. his resume is the least wtf of anyone you called out. have a hard time giving that one a second of validation.
same goes for mooring and his work on the dl. teams rush for 2 fewer ypc and 120 fewer ypg than in 2015. would love to see what the numbers would look like if awad had played 12g healthy.
mason did a damn good job w/ the safeties, so again not seeing the wtf. especially when he was brought in as a ga and moved up - that's how coaching progression works.

just glancing through the bios of the staffs at utsa, unt, uh, ulm and ull, and they all have similar makeups w/ plenty of guys in their first position coaching spot, came from less than great fcs teams, guys that were at bigger programs and are now coaching for less money, coached completely different positions or even straight from high school.

i'd love to be raiding successful teams for their proven coaches, but that's not where we live, and until someone goes boone pickens on the program, it's not going to be.

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Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:11 pm
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Post Re: Chris Woods - OU coach transfer? Is this a re-post?
Parker Fleming to The Ohio State is the rumor:
https://twitter.com/Keff_C/status/968259913829920768

Brett Elliott returning to TXST as QB Coach:
https://twitter.com/Keff_C/status/968263940848345088

I like Elliott as a QB coach but not so much as a OC. I'm sure he'll be Co-OC but I like Kuhr making the calls.

Could this benefit the QBs he recruited in Jones, Kelly, and Gipson? It can't hurt. Add Vitt to table. Elliott has talent to work with.


Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:10 pm
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Post Re: Chris Woods - OU coach transfer? Is this a re-post?
tx.state wrote:
Quit getting butthurt about coaches leaving...they're going to come and go...



That's not the issue(s) I have mentioned. Quit using straw man arguments or else I will have to expose you for the moron that you are . . . oh, shit. I'll do it regardless:

tx.state wrote:
Fleming was making $85k with the Co-OC title here at TXST.


No, Fleming was making $110,000. He made $85,000 in 2016 and received a $25,000 increase when he was given the coordinator title. Damn, you have no idea what you're talking about.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/football/assistant?hootPostID=f739cb838bc887ee873f524ea98065a0


tx.state wrote:

The lowest on-field coach at Ohio State makes $300k. I'm sure the off-field coaches are making well over $150k.


This shows just how out of touch with reality you are. You aren't just wrong - you are incredibly fucking wrong.

The biggest name in an off-field role over the last few years has probably been Mike Locksley. He is a former FBS head coach, former OC at Illinois/Maryland, and has spent 20+ years at the P5 level. He was an analyst at Alabama in 2016. His salary? $45,000.

Analysts/quality control, even at the biggest programs, aren't getting anywhere close to $150,000. Most analysts/QCs are between $24,000 - $50,000. Anything more than that is definitely rare.

Now, DFOs, chiefs of staff, and directors of player personnel positions at the top schools can make much more than that, but those aren't off-field coaches. Those are support staff that aren't considered coaches. However, even Ohio State, a staff that includes a player personnel and nine recruiting assistants under him, only paid about $700,000 for those ten positions last year (with a big chunk of that going to the director).

You do realize that this stuff is public record, right? I've read this board for almost two years. Why is it so acceptable to fabricate and post bullshit on here that isn't true?


Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:08 pm
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Post Re: Chris Woods - OU coach transfer? Is this a re-post?
Saul Goodman wrote:
run faster wrote:
Do you have an hour to read through all of them?

yeah, sorry...not sure those are wtf. we're at the ass end of fbs. it's 100% normal for coaches to have their 1st position experience at this level.




Does it happen? Yes. Is it the norm? Not even close. You will see guys from major programs be GAs/QCs and then take a full-time position at the lower FBS schools, but it's unheard of for an FCS GA to then be a full-time FBS coach . . . except at Texas State. You said the safeties coach being promoted was "how coaching progression works." No, it is very rare for a guy whose only experience is 1 year as an FCS GA and 1 year as a GA at the worst FBS team to then suddenly be full-time at FBS. Very rare. That's not how things work.

Mayes is here to be a recruiter? Fine. In that case, why the hell would he be hired as an OL coach? Those great recruiters are put at RB/TE and possibly OLB or a defensive back position, not OL! It was a bad hire at that position which is why he was switched. That is on Withers.

Kuhr knows what Withers wants, so making him OC is wise? Huh? Calls a good game? Our offense went from 124th to 107th and that was while adding an SEC part-time starting QB and facing a far weaker Sun Belt in 2017 than it was in 2016.

The defense was the only thing that kept us in games? Doesn't that mean our offense was atrocious, yet you're championing for the OC. Hmmm.

Our defense went from 125th to 102nd, again, while facing a far weaker conference schedule. Look at what you have done: you have named three of the four defensive coaches last year and went to bat for all of them as having done a great job. Yet, the defense was 102nd in the country while facing the next to easiest schedule in the country! How the fuck can at least three out of four of your defensive coaches have done a great job, yet the defense finishes 102nd in the country while facing the next to easiest schedule in the country? That means one of three things: 1) that fourth defensive coach was so bad that he screwed up the "great" job the other three defensive assistants did 2) the talent level is so woefully awful that even a great job by the defensive staff results in shitty results 3) you don't have a clue what the hell you are talking about.

I am going with #3.

Nice job avoiding comparing our staff with the staffs of the top three schools in the conference. And no, places like Houston and UNT have far more experienced staffs than we do. It isn't a money issue here. We pay competitively within the Sun Belt. It is a hiring issue.


Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:25 pm
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Post Re: Chris Woods - OU coach transfer? Is this a re-post?
I'll just leave this here:

https://twitter.com/everett_withers/status/937338142390136832
Those are improved stats on D. Not sure how you see if differently. Comparing us to bowl eligible teams doesn't make sense since you noted we are on the wrong side right now. Comparing to App. State? Might as well compare us to UT while your at it.


https://twitter.com/everett_withers/status/938073418024542208
-Kuhr's play calling has been sound from slowing offense down (something Elliott never did with a worse OL) to getting players opportunities. Many games he put players in positions to succeed and they didn't convert. Yeah, can blame coaching but at what point is it on the player?

All improved stats from 2016 and even the penalties per game went down with a heavily freshmen/sophomore team.


Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:55 pm
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Post Re: Chris Woods - OU coach transfer? Is this a re-post?
run faster wrote:
No, it is very rare for a guy whose only experience is 1 year as an FCS GA and 1 year as a GA at the worst FBS team to then suddenly be full-time at FBS. Very rare. That's not how things work.

that's exactly how things work. that's how probably 50% of coaches come up.
run faster wrote:
Nice job avoiding comparing our staff with the staffs of the top three schools in the conference.

i just grabbed the closest geographic and comparable schools to us. is arkst not a top 3 sbc team? here are the other two:
troy:
Brian Blackmon, one of the most successful and respected high school coaches in the state of Alabama, begins his first season on the Troy football staff coaching the Trojan tight ends and S-Backs. He joins the Troy staff following one season as an offensive analyst at Auburn following a 21-year career at Opelika High School.
Reagan returned to Troy in 2011 as the full time quarterback coach after one season as a graduate assistant under Neal Brown at Texas Tech.
Prior to coming to Troy, Pogue served as Auburn’s Director of High School Relations after working on the field as a quality control assistant the previous two years.
appst:
Brown came to Appalachian State from Ole Miss, where he was a four-year letter winner on the gridiron as well as a member of the Rebels' basketball team before serving for two years on his alma mater's football staff (2010-11). In 2011, he served as a graduate assistant coach at Ole Miss, working specifically with the Rebels' “spur” (nickel back) position.
Ivey returned to Appalachian State in 2012 after 16 years as a high-school coach in Florida.
Cardwell played tight end on the three national championship teams from 2004-07 and finished his career as a co-captain. Cardwell coached App State's tight ends in 2008.
Smith amassed 525 tackles as an App State linebacker from 2007-10 and played four NFL seasons. He returned to Boone in 2016 as the director of recruiting relations and worked last season as a senior defensive analyst.
run faster wrote:
And no, places like Houston and UNT have far more experienced staffs than we do.

they have plenty of guys whose last job as a ga. just like most every single g5 team.
run faster wrote:
It isn't a money issue here. We pay competitively within the Sun Belt. It is a hiring issue.

8th is competitive?

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Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:00 am
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Post Re: Chris Woods - OU coach transfer? Is this a re-post?
Bobkat34 wrote:
I'll just leave this here:

https://twitter.com/everett_withers/status/937338142390136832
Those are improved stats on D. Not sure how you see if differently. Comparing us to bowl eligible teams doesn't make sense since you noted we are on the wrong side right now. Comparing to App. State? Might as well compare us to UT while your at it.




What? I never said that there weren't improved stats on defense. I know I am wasting my time on you since you don't know the difference between "your" and "you're," but look at the picture you posted from Withers' Twitter. Notice anything? He only posted the categories the statistics improved on defense. The rush defense was highlighted. Why is the pass defense not on there? Because we went from 108th in the country to 126th in the country. Why are turnovers not on there? Because we went from 14 takeaways last year to 9 this year. Do you realize we didn't have a single interception all season? Has anyone ever seen an FBS team go all season without getting an INT? Luckily, only the 12 of us who watch Texas State football are able to now say that.

The point is that the picture only shows the good while hiding the bad. Did the defense improve? Yes. Was there any place else it could have gone after finishing next to last in the country last year in defense? Not really. Was it a big improvement considering we played a far easier schedule? No, not at all.


Bobkat34 wrote:
I'll just leave this here:

https://twitter.com/everett_withers/status/938073418024542208
-Kuhr's play calling has been sound from slowing offense down (something Elliott never did with a worse OL) to getting players opportunities. Many games he put players in positions to succeed and they didn't convert. Yeah, can blame coaching but at what point is it on the player?

All improved stats from 2016 and even the penalties per game went down with a heavily freshmen/sophomore team.


Did you bother to read the picture you linked? It is just about conference games! Ha! Why would he post one thing for defense, then change the measuring stick for offense? We both know the answer to that.

So, yes, when you play a far easier Sun Belt schedule (as I previously mentioned, the Sun Belt was far worse in 2017 than 2016) it isn't hard to imagine that your stats/play against the Sun Belt will be better since the conference got worse. Of course, why bother looking at this logically when you can manipulate statistics to the dumb crowd and make it look like good things are happening?


Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:01 am
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Post Re: Chris Woods - OU coach transfer? Is this a re-post?
Saul Goodman wrote:
that's exactly how things work. that's how probably 50% of coaches come up.



You've lost your damn mind. You think it is normal for a coach to have only had two years of GA experience, one at a bad FCS and one at an awful FBS, and then become a full-time at FBS? Not a chance. If that were the case, you'd have 50% of coaches (your number) having been a 25 year old full-time FBS coach at some point in their career. That is extremely rare.

What does happen is a coach getting GA jobs at the FBS level, GA jobs at the FCS level, and turning those into an FCS coaching job. Then, with some mix of back-and-forth, they get an FBS job. It is almost unheard of for a person to have only two years of GA work (again, one at FCS and one at FBS) and then become full-time at FBS. 50%? Not even 5%.

Look at what you're doing with your attempt at a comparison. You have a guy with 21 years of high school coaching experience, then SEC analyst experience, and you're trying to compare that to the guys we have with two years of GA experience (one at a bad FCS, one at an awful FBS)? Come on.



You're a Damn Liar wrote:


troy:

Reagan returned to Troy in 2011 as the full time quarterback coach after one season as a graduate assistant under Neal Brown at Texas Tech.


Now, you have resorted to blatant lying in an attempt to give your argument any validity? That's pathetic. You claim that Reagan simply spent one year as a GA at Tech before becoming full-time? Before full-time at Troy, Reagan had ten years of high school coaching, two years of GA coaching at Troy, a year of GA at Tech, and now has been full-time at Troy for seven years.

So, when he was hired full-time at Troy, he had a decade of high school coaching experience and three years of FBS GA experience (one being at a P5). And you're trying to compare that to one year of GA at a bad FCS and one year of GA at a bad FBS?

I won't even bother wasting my time reading your other attempts knowing that you tried misleading as bad as you just did.





I'm Lying Again wrote:
they have plenty of guys whose last job as a ga. just like most every single g5 team


Liar. UNT has a staff full of a ton of guys with years of FBS and FCS full-time experience. Tashard Choice played five years in the NFL, was an FBS QC, and now is full-time. Filani played three years in the NFL, spent two years as an FBS GA, spent another year as a P5 QC, and now is full-time. Everyone else has numerous years of FBS/FCS full-time coaching experience. Again, compare that to our staff. You're trying to compare apples to dump trucks.

.
Saul wrote:

8th is competitive?
[/quote]

Without checking the veracity of your 8th comment, which is probably wrong, then yes, it is competitive. In a 12 team conference, it puts TX State in the middle of the pack in terms of salaries. That is competitive. It's not like our football salaries make us unable to compete with similar coaching staffs in the Sun Belt in who we hire. Our staff isn't as inexperienced as it is because of money. It is inexperienced because of bad hires.


Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:24 am
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Post Re: Chris Woods - OU coach transfer? Is this a re-post?
8/12 is competitive in terms of salaries but 4/14 for recruiting is abyssmal :lol:

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Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:51 am
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:lol: :lol:
i feel like phratty and taxi had a kid.

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Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:50 am
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as far as being competitive in salaries: the rest of the sbc has coaching staffs similar to ours, with plenty of 1st time position coaches. so, to lessen those types of coaches, and get some with more experience, we need to be more in the $1.5-$2m range for staff, instead of the $700k-1.2m sbc range. that's more in line w/ the mwc, although i'd bet anything there are still 1st time position coaches in that conf as well.

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Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:58 am
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Post Re: Chris Woods - OU coach transfer? Is this a re-post?
Larry Teis wrote:
8/12 is competitive in terms of salaries but 4/14 for recruiting is abyssmal :lol:


First, I had to deal with Saul blatantly lying about the coaching history of his "examples." Now, I have to deal with you completely taking things out of context. Is there any intellectual honesty on this board?

8/12 in salaries is competitive within the league. That puts one in the middle of the pack. The recruiting "success" of FAU had nothing to do with if they were or were not competitive in their conference in recruiting, which is what the salary discussion was about.

The recruiting comment was in response to a poster's comment that Chris Kiffin's show cause wouldn't hurt them in recruiting because they just, allegedly, had a special year in recruiting. I showed that one ranking had FAU very low nationally and within C-USA in recruiting, so the comment that they had a great recruiting season was bogus. Another poster used another ranking to show that FAU was 4th in C-USA in recruiting, which again, is nothing special. It would make them competitive in their conference, but that wasn't the point of the comment regarding Kiffin not being able to recruit had he stayed at FAU.

I can't tell if some of you are truly this dumb or if you just throw random shit out there hoping that some of it sticks.

Saul Goodman wrote:
as far as being competitive in salaries: the rest of the sbc has coaching staffs similar to ours, with plenty of 1st time position coaches. so, to lessen those types of coaches, and get some with more experience, we need to be more in the $1.5-$2m range for staff, instead of the $700k-1.2m sbc range. that's more in line w/ the mwc, although i'd bet anything there are still 1st time position coaches in that conf as well.


And that is still completely false. Sure, there are many teams throughout FBS that have one or two coaches who are in their first full-time jobs. However, look at the number of TX State guys Withers has hired into that role in just two years: safeties coach, OL coach, TE coach, new secondary coach (he had 1 year of D3 coaching besides GA for one or two years) . . . that means almost half of his staff is comprised of guys in their first real coaching job. That's a huge problem, and it is showing! Withers then magnifies the problem in multiple ways. First, he gives those first-time coaches their own special teams units, things they have never coached before. Next, instead of hiring experienced coordinators to assist those young coaches, he hires a guy who has never called plays before and was just pushed out of his last job and a guy whose only on-field coaching experience over the last seven years was at a bad JUCO.

If you don't think this is a problem, then I recommend getting off of this message board, Everett.

Yes, many schools have one or two guys on their staff in their first full-time position. It is very rare to have almost half of your staff made up of that, then throw in some inexperienced/unqualified coordinators on top of that.


Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:47 am
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Post Re: Chris Woods - OU coach transfer? Is this a re-post?
run faster wrote:
Mayes is here to be a recruiter? Fine. In that case, why the hell would he be hired as an OL coach? Those great recruiters are put at RB/TE and possibly OLB or a defensive back position, not OL! It was a bad hire at that position which is why he was switched. That is on Withers.


I'm asking here...

But given the G5 schools overall (and us in particular) seem to have a problem recruiting decent OL kids, and especially with how bad it was when Withers showed up... Wouldn't it be wise to put our best recruiter as coach over that position?

Or am I just looking at this TOTALLY wrong, which is entirely possible.

I get that even though he's an OL coach, they recruit in regions... But I would think it might add a bit of extra "oomph" if that good recruiter is also coaching that position.

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